Just to make you guys really really jealous....

For my next battle in January me and my father (or should that be my father and I) have booked an MP44 each. I cant wait to get my hands on that lovely peice of kit, hehe. All I need now is the Jagdtiger....

 

I will hate you forever now. Just joking. How did you manage that? I've been trying to talk my friend into letting me be the mg gunner at an upcoming event, I don't think its working though. Also I don't think it would be acturate for me to have an mp44 since those were pretty much issued to waffen ss troops and I'm heer. Oh well at least there are panzershreks, hetzers, and pak 40s for me to play with.

 

Eheh, that is enough to make one jealous. But check this out: This weekend we're staying in a fully concrete bunker. It has a grenade sump, a Sub gun port, and two firing ports for MG's. The walls are between 6" and 1' thick. Supporting the bunker is a perminant trench that is 5' deep and 9' long, revetted with wood.

The weapons covering this prize position will be 2x MG42's, 2x 81mm mortars, 1x rifle grenade launcher, 1x panzershreck, and 1x panzerfaust.

We will get to the bunker via 1x Sdkfz 251D half-track, 1x Ford Maultier, and 2x R75/sidecar combo motorcycles.

Not bad for a unit of 13 guys huh?

 

I'd be jealous, but I'm one of those 13 guys. I can't wait till the event this weekend.

 

I too, suffer from their affliction.

Great time this weekend, guys!

 

It was great this weekend, maybe next time you'll survive being the op.

 

Hahaha, I doubt it!

I'm just glad the Russkies don't have any armor, or we'd be in for some serious spanking all the time.

heh

Was a great time.

 

If they had armor I'd have a reason to use our panzerfaust.

 

hey i've asked these questions before but i am so curious??
In these reenactments...i can't stop wondering when you know your hit or wounded or what have you.
The way someone explained it to me was basiclly if someone shoots at you and it is obviose he aimed right at you, you fall...or if a fake grendade falls by you...your assumed blown up...well someone mentioned a defensive postition being defended by mortars. How are they used in reenactments?! Are they just fun to use and make noise or do they actually play a part in the "battle"?
Also i was wondering...do they actually have tanks and such in these events? what about artillery? Do you have basookas or Panzerfausts?...and if so how are they used/play a part in the "battle"?

[ 15 April 2002, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Ron ]

 

Wow, that's a whole load of questions. I'll do my best to answer each and every one of them for you ok?

When someone is pointing a rifle, pistol or MG in your general direction and you can see the muzzle flash, it is generally assumed that you are dead. Now, if it's a huge firefight, you can most likely ignore the first 1-2 shots, but after that you should play along and take one for the team. There is no "wounded," only deaths. When dead, it is customary to go back to a rallying point about 100 yards behind the fighting zone and take a 5 minute break. Once that period is over, you are "in" and can rejoin the fight.

As far as grenades go, things have become pretty hi-tech. We now have grenades that carry a small black powder charge that is ignited via some sort of fuze. After 4-5 seconds this goes off causing a small, but vivid cloud of smoke. If this happens near you, it's a good indicatior that you should be "dead."

In our reenacting unit www.25panzergrendiv.com we have two German 81mm mortars. These have been modified to fire 35mm film cannisters filled with black powder and corn meal. Two film cannisters are placed together. One is the kick charge, and the other houses mostly corn meal for the smoke. Our rounds can go over 250 yards on a good day and we are fairly accurate with them.

The same could be said for my German Scheissbecker rifle grenade launcher. It uses the same type of charge as the mortar and goes about 100 yards with fairly good accuracy. We have one Panzerschreck that fires a charge that just shoots flame and lots of smoke out of it about 3 feet in front and back. (It's a pretty impressive sight)

We in the 25th Panzergrenadier Division used to be members of the 2nd Panzer Division. While we were in 2nd Panzer we had an origional WWII STuG III, an origional WWII Hetzer, and 3x Sdkfz 251D half-tracks. In our new unit, however, we have 1x Sdkfz 251d half-track, 1x Ford Maultier, 1x Steyer-Daimler Puch Motorcycle, 1x Zundapp Motorcycle, and 4x Ural Motorcycles (Russian Copies of the WWII BMW R75)

We have 1x rifle grenade launcher, 2x panzerfausts, 2x Panzerschrecks, 2x MG42s, 1x MG34, 2x 81mm Mortars, and a whole slew of other weapons. They are all used in battle when we can get enough people out to crew them all, in a historically accurate manner.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If you have more (which I'm sure you do) please feel free to ask. I'll be more than happy to answer them as best I can.

Langemann

 

So hmmm in regards to the mortar...how do you know you were hit by it? If you were hit by corn meal?

Also you mentioned something about a weapon that shoots flame...i forget what that was...i guess that works like the guns...if it goes off in your direction you fall?

Can the vehicles get "knocked out" how does that work? Also do the vehicle armaments work? like MG's and turrets?

Are some of the weopons really for show i guess and really play no active roll in who wins the battle?

No one knows who will win right? How is a battle won?

It's really cool for you to answer my questions...for i am interested in reenacting. But if i ever get involved i'd like to know how everything works and such you know?
thanks!

 

Ron I'll try to answer some of your questions, but usually my answers make people more confused.

First of all, if the mortor lands near you, like around 5 feet your hit. The thing that shoots flame is a panzerschrek which is like a bazooka. If you look on Langemans profile you will see a picture of one in the background, I'm the guy whose face you can't see. Vehicles can be taken out and the weapons on them can be used, people take hits from the mg's on them and what else they have.

Well thats the best I can answer your questions, hopefully langeman can do a etter job. Also which side are you interested in reenacting.

 

I'll chime in here briefly:

The "explosion" is enough to catch your attention - it's very similar to someone taking a paper bag and popping it near you. If you are very close, it's quite loud. Most re-enactors just know when they've been "hit", as they've read or studied enough of WWII History to understand the effects of most of the weaponry fielded. American or British troops are notorious for not taking hits, whislt Russians are very respected for their apparent respect for German weaponry. It's not uncommon to whipe out an entire Section of Bolsheviks with automatic fire, while the Americans ("Amis" for short ["ameees"]) duck for the nearest cover.

As panzergrenadiere mentioned, the Panzerschreck does, in fact, produce a "flame" out both ends of the tube. We again use a mixture of black powder and corn meal to produce enough bang and "poof" to safely simulate a PanzerSchreck firing.

Also of note are our Gas-Operated Machineguns which fire off of a controlled mixture of Oxygen and propane; regulated to simulate the appropriate firing timing associated with either the MG-34 or -42. These simulators produce a rather amazing flame that is quite remarkable when seen at night. Lengermann can fill you in a bit more if you have questions, as he has operated our squads -42 on more than one occasion.

Depending on the vehicle, some weaponry is "live". Quite a few tanks have had the guns "rechambered" to instead simulate the firepower by mixing and discharging Oxygen and Propane in controlled ignition. Ultimately it depends on the "local" gun laws. Here in Indiana, gun law is rather uncontrolled - elsewhere, however, possessing automatic weapons is unheard of. In short, yes, MGs and other weapons can be found "live", or firing black powder shells (for example, I used to run a 75mm Infantry Howitzer for 2.Panzer which fired compacted black powder shells, similar to that of other re-enacting periods).

Well, I don't speak for everyone - but we (25.PanzerGrenadier members) like to use our toys, and only like to lug around weapons that we need. Depending on the Scenario we carry different weapon loadouts. The first event I ever participated in (Camp Atterbury, IN : Tactical Studies Group National Event : September, 2001) my squad actively participated as a strengthened Tank Destruction detachment of 2 PanzerSchreck Teams (2 men, one w/ 'schreck, one with ammo), an MG Team (2 men, one w/ MG, one with Ammo), and a Zugfuehrer. At the next major event, we refitted with 2 8cm mortars (one Halftrack mounted), a PanzerSchreck team, an MG-team, and assorted extra personnel. Ultimately, the group I am a part of (as well as Lengermann and others) attempts to be prepared for most engagements - and up until this point, we've been blessed with an appropriate guise under a "Heavy Weapons Zug" - which would accordingly have Light Field Howitzers, Mortars, Heavy Emplaced machinguns, PanzerSchrecks, 'Fausts, Mines, etc...

Depending on the event, different "rules" systems are enforced. At the "brute" level, it ultimately comes down to who holds the ground at the end of the day. But no, battles are not decided upon in advance UNLESS it happens to be a public battke for demonstration, in which they are orchestrated to best enterntain and inform the audience.

Hope my answers help a bit!

 

in regards to the mortars blowing up near you...what if one lands on you? Won't that hurt you?

In states with strict gun laws does that mean there won't be any machines guns? i know here in NJ the is a ban against assault rifles and such (like M-16 AK-47 etc)
I always figured the actual reenactors didn't possess the weopons...for the most part...the heavy weopon like MG's and such were held by the organizer of the events and such...

Say a tanks fires...your hit i guess only if fired in your direction?

Oh and maan talk about the honor system...how in the world does a vehicle know it has been knocked out? Arguements must break out once in a while huh? or word exchanges you know.

this is all rather new to me...i went to an air show/ww2 fair this past summer...and they had some reenacting but it seemed rather dinky in some respects...there was a stage built to look like a bombed out house(that was the americans) then there were the germans who were behind some walls some 20-25 yards away. Some of the blank ammo sounded REALLY dinky and thus nothing like real ammo....almost like caps it was so bad...no body seemed to be getting hit(even though i myself would see man after man who should have been hit) and i found it REALLY almost comical all these grenades flying around with no smoke or explosion and no body getting hit...eventually i guess they ran out of blanks and that was it! It really reminded my of when i was a kid playing war...you know and i sware i hit someone and they are like no you missed heh heh.
The battles you guys do seem a lot more interesting and realistic.

 

If a mortar round lands on you (which it has before) it most likely will scare the heck out of you more than anything. You're wearing wool (HBTs if your allied) and a helmet, so you're pretty protected. Only if the mortar round went off directly onto your skin would there be some problems. It could cause 2nd degree burns, but that is a very unlikely situation.

All states have strict gun laws when it comes to fully automatic weapons. For those lucky enough to own them, all that is required to bring them to the events is a copy of their federal gun license. I have yet to be to an event where there wasn't at least one MG and one SMG that fired full auto.

The guns are normally possessed by reenactors or those who own a class three firearms license. For those who do not have the license and wish to use them, they can sometimes be rented out for the day from the owner.

When tanks fire, you know it. They're loud and it's usually close to you. Basically when a tank comes over to your position, you're dead. Unless, that is, if you're sneaky and have a panzerfaust or shreck and kill it first.

As far as the honor system goes, we use the Graef Rules System. We have referees that tell the vehicle (since it's hard to see grunts on the ground) when they've been hit and are knocked out. Word exchanges do happen from time to time, but we all strive to make sure that it dosen't get out of control.

As far as mock public battles go, normally people don't die right away. This keeps the battle going for a bit, and gives the public an opportunity to see weapons in action that they don't normally get to see. The blanks that we use definately don't sound like caps. They are normal bullet casings filled most of the way up with powder. While there is little to no recoil, there is plenty of fire coming out the end of the barrel.

I hope this answers your questions for now. If you've got more, please post them, as I'll be more than happy to respond.

Langemann

 

hey thanks alot.....you've answered mainly all my questions...i guess the last one is
You mentioned the mortar hitting you on the head....but what if it hits your uniform...won't it burn the material?

Thats very interesting about the Tank and the Refs
what if a tank comes in your area but you stay hidden..are you still dead?

 

Well, if you stay hidden you:

A. Can use an anti-tank weapon or something or another against the vehicle.

B. RUN THE RISK OF GETTING RUN OVER.

That's the main reason for the referee being there - individual safety. If you don't move out of the way for the vehicle, it's an insurance nightmare for all involved parties.

Either way, we use our best judgement. I've heard all sorts of stories involving vehicles, and none are to be taken lightly.

One in particular involves a P-51 buzzing ground troops (re-enactors) at an airfield. He flew so low as to clip a Jeep's Radio arial, which whiplashed on the vehicle, severly jarring the crew. Supposedly the same pilot was later seen flying so low that the re-enactors could easily make out the fact that he was using a 35mm camera to snap shots on the flybys.

Moral of the Story:
Vehicles are to be given a wide berth.