10 Questions for Supporters of Obamacare

Tough questions...to bad the Democrats never ever answer or address these issues...

Dennis Prager : 10 Questions for Supporters of 'ObamaCare' - Townhall.com

 

1. The problem with medicaid is that you still pay for private insurance only with public money. That's why it's so expensive.

2. it's just silly won't even bother.

3. Wrong. Medicaid coverage is dubious in the least. It has a lot of double standards and there are around 60,000,000 people not covered. See http://www2.citizen.org/hrg/medicaid/assets/reports/2007UnsettlingScores.pdf

4. Who should decide then? the guy who wrote the article? I don't think health should be rationalized but should the need arise, then I believe the state has more people knowing what they are doing than anyone else. And probably, small problems would be only partially covered. Tough I don't particularly agree with this idea but still, it's better than what you have now.

5. Well, I fail to see how limiting the HUGE profits of the pharmaceutical companies in order to lower the prices of medicine thus improving their accessibility for the average citizen a bad thing. I guess big CEOs will have to live without their $10,000,000 bonus at the end of the year... I don't know how they'll manage to survive but it's a crisis we're living in and belts must be tightened.

6. exactly and they'd still survive... for private hospitals. In the beginning at least. I fail to see how everyone being covered by a public health plan is a bad thing.

7. because it's their job. Hospitals exist to help people not to make money. Health is not a market option. It's a civil right. And the government funding wouldn't be "cut" actually it would increase. Nowadays, hospitals receive money from the insurances companies who don't pay the hospitals everything they have. they're there to make money. If Obama does this right, Hospital public funding should increase.

8. Totally agree. But this is more related to your justice system which allows for things like the Estella awards examples to happen.

9. Why cut on health spending? I think a prosperous nation has to be an healthy one. How come people don't argue that 60% of personal bankruptcies in the USA are related to health expenses? That's a bigger burden to the economy than the money that'll be spent in healthcare. Also, a sick person is a non working one and that's another burden.

10. Actually, yes. Take the Cuban example.

I find it hard to believe that you spend so much time bashing the possibility of an health plan which isn't even totally defined. If you spent this amount of time discussing how to best counter the rising unemployment, that'd be a far more useful fight. Every year, a 10% unemployment rate will cost more to the state than whatever healthcare plan is imposed. Every year $100,000,000,000 are wasted due to traffic jams so you can also try and promote rail transportation instead of trucks. It'd help the economy. there are a lot of more useful things to do than try and find whatever excuse you can to bash the public option of health. Things which are far more damaging for the economy. You could also promote the production of Hemp. It would greatly improve the environment and prevent soil erosion not to mention the deflorestation since Hemp is 48X more efficient in producing paper and makes a paper which can be recycled 50X in lieu to the 5X regular tree cellulose paper can be reused.

Anyway, just my 5c... i'm just a left wing nutter so what do I know right?




Cheers...

 

Unfortunately, your last sentence is the only one that indicates you really understand any of the pertinent issues.

 

So what do we have now in the US?

A system run by HMO's and the pharma industry bureaucrat who's only goal is to make money, not provide a service.

Can a system run by government bureaucracies that have no profit motive be worse?

Here in Germany I have full coverage and it isn't government run. We still have to pay when working and it isn;t cheap. I was paying 150 Euro per month just for my coverage the employer paid the same.

One of the main reasons that I still live here and not in the States. None of the BS of losing insurance if you lose a job, none of the BS not getting insurance for ailment's that you already have. No waiting, no HMO deciding if I need the treatment or the medicine. For a country that prides itself on being the best, the medical system is thrid world and something we as a nation should be ashamed of. Note that is SYSTEM. The US has the Best medicine in the world, IF you can afford it.

HP

 

In a competitive system, and that is what the US has, making money is only possible if superior care is provided. If satisfactory service is not provided, the HMO's (which represent only a fraction of the medical care industry) quickly go broke. Why do you think the pharmaceutical industry has more or less abandoned Europe? It's because government price controls have made it unprofitable to operate there.

Are you kidding? Is this a trick question? It's practically INEVITABLE that a system run by government bureaucracies will be more costly and less responsive to the public's needs, simply because there is no requirement for a profit motive and hence no need for efficiency or responsiveness.

Congratulations. I and my wife also have full coverage and our medical care system isn't run by the government either. It is also expensive, but nothing like 150 Euros/month. Moreover, if the coverage or service is not satisfactory, I am free to seek health care elsewhere. What I like best about it, is I decide what health service I get and when, not some government accountant.

Apparently, you haven't lived in the states for a long time. The reason the US has the BEST MEDICINE IN THE WORLD is precisely because of the way the system works; it's naive to think that the system can be divorced from the medical care provided. Paying for health care is always an issue, whether the government administers the system or not. The only difference between the US system and a government run system is that in the US system, YOU decide what care you can afford; in a government run system, the government decides what care you can afford.

BTW, in the US you don't lose your medical coverage if you lose or change jobs; it's YOUR choice if you want to continue to pay for your previous health coverage or change to other coverage. The last time I changed jobs, I chose to continue my previous coverage for a period of six month until I was eligible for health coverage at my new job. I could have continued with my previous coverage, but chose to go with the health care provider available at my new job because it was better than my old coverage; the choice was mine in any case.

 

Im paying my own Med Ins @ some $145 per month for what I now get. In January, it LEAPED up from only--ONLY $94 bucks a month-to $145--and absolutely NOTHING has changed with the exception that some bastards are now scamming an extra $51 bucks a month out of my already stretched taut-pockets. I don't know if $94 bucks or $145 bucks a month for Insurance seems like a high number for some of you out there but-to jump as much as it did in only 1 month---somethings wrong there.

Miguel, I pay for all of my own med bills so im not one of those who is putting a strain on the American tax-payer-unlike all the GD'ed illegal ALIENS who have infested our Country and healthcare systems. As you might remember that I had major surgery last year??? I am paying out of my own pocket-and with one fo the best insurance plans affordable-the best one I can find so far) and im STILL having to pay out of my pocket a non grand total of $16,500++++ That figure has been whitteled down by almost half-by me in less than a year. I would have rather had bought a new car-that I desperately need-instead of shelling out all that Dough to the health care system that treats illegal aliens for free-meaning they-the illegal aliens-don't have to spend a GD'ed Penny-while WE taxpayers HAVE to pay for them to go to the Emergency Room fior a frigging sore-throat!!!!!!!!!!!

When I get a sore throat-I spend less then $4 bucks on stuff that helps me get rid of it-instead of costing the US taxpayer a few THOUSAND dollars to treat a frigging sore-throat. You in Foreignland can sit back and say anything you want-even laugh at it and make fun of the Americans who are BURDONED with being taxed and chrged to death and in many cases-cannot afford the great healthcare for they and their own family-because money is siphoned out of their pockets to treat some stupid-lazy-law-breaking illegal aliens who broke our laws by sneaking across the border.

Consider a brick flying in your direction of your noble nose and both your hands tied behind your back. You know whats coming next? lots of pain for sure.

Cheers

 

Is that really the best you can say? Are you already out of arguments? That's pretty weak. When you have anything usefull to say, then we can talk. Until then, you failed to proove you know anything more than I do regarding, well, anything. And I'd apreciate you moderate your tone. It isn't fitting of this foruns to try and argue with something silly like that. You persistently recurr to insults and I'm getting fed up. Really fed up with your attitude. At least try to bring some arguments. I don't know how mods never gave you any kind of warning. Your conduct is disgracefull to say the least. You give a bad reputation to this forum. No wonder some people stopped showing.


Evans, again, your aims are off. Illegal aliens are not responsible for your current predicament. they are only people who lived in conditions desperate enough to try and flee their own countries ad houses and lives in exchange for a dream. There are sevral other peoblems ailing you who are much more devastating to your (and everyone else's) country.
What you say bout your health plan is but a taste of things to come. Insurances work like this; if you have more people, in theory, you'd pay less than with less people. Now, with unemployment rising, lots of people are loosing their insurance and so, in order for the insurance companies to keep their profits, they have to raise the price. So, you're paying to keep someone already obscenely rich, richer. As this crisis deepens and more people loose the ability to hold to their private insurances, more money will be extorted from you. Until you can't afford it that is. Social welfare is a much safer bet. Everyone pays a share and for your sore throat, that means that instead of $4 you'd pay probably less than a cent, everybody would, and you'd know, you wouldn't have to py from your pocket such an expensive intervention. The state would pay it. And it's not such a great cost as I mentioned earlier. You spend more money on other frivolous things other than health. I already gave a few examples. Really if you want to cut down spending start involving yourself in local politics. If Portugal is like the rest of the world in that area, you'd be surprosed at the amount of wasted money in your local community.




Cheers...

 

Again Miguel, you don't know anything about what your talking about when it comes to whats going here in America instead or Portugal or Spain. I highly suggest that if you want to see the truth to the matte-come over here and live for a year-in one of the cities located in what is commonly called: The Valley-and you yourself, could never deny the facts of whats going on.

They are I~L~L~E~G~A~L~A~L~I~E~N~S if they ""flee"" their countries and enter the USA without permission because of sneaking across our Southern Border-which I live near and I see these people who flee from their Countries and come HERE to live their dreams. I would have no problem with that except if they did it L~E~G~A~L~L~Y instead of I~L~L~E~G~A~L~L~Y as they are doing now.

What part of Legal and Illegal do you not seem to understand????????????

I know how our insurance systems work which is why I chose the plan I now have. I also know how Capitolism wors as well as Communism and Socialism. I do realize that the rich ger richer by stepping on the poorer (most of the time) but that is not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is the flooding of people across our Southern border who come here and LIVE most of their lives feeding and siphoning off the AMERICAN TAXPAYER-and never doing much more than smoking Weed and getting drunk and also having Anchor babies.

Absolutely NOBODY pays anything into me getting the care I need-especially for things as minor as a "sore throat." If it were up to me, I would deny any illegal alien medical care of anykind with the exceptions of emergencies. THWY have NOT earned the rights we Americans who hav eworked all their lives have earned-and as ILLEGALS--THEY do NOT deserve what LEGAL citizens are entitled to. If this sounds harsh and uncaring toy ou? sorry but as the English sometimes say but "There it is".

What I choose to spend MY earned money on is MY business. I don't go around telling anyone ever, that they cannot buy something that they want but don't really need. Im sorry that where your from must not be as advanced in certain things as they are here or in the least-does not have as many "goods" available to the average consumer-as they are here.

I really find it both funny and sickening that you can sit back in your chair and dictate that its perfectly OK for illegals to slither across our border-and take full advantage of our healthcare system as well as Social Security,Welfare, HUD Housing, legal assistance and anything else you can dream up? and still make a better living than many struggeling LEGAL Americans who are trying to do the correct thing and that is to producs for our economy and to legally make their way through life by working and paying for their own ways-instead of being a lazy-good-for-nothing-drunk or high on some drug--ILLEGAL ALIEN who all he does days in and out is to sit on "my" front porch drinking beer, cheap wine-and smoking Toke--all at "my" expense-while "I" and all other legal Americans who are working even if only part time-such as myself-and who are NOT living off the system, have to go out on a near daily basis to sweat at their jobs in order to just survive--while said lazy good for nothing illegals "party it up" all the time and also making babies that they are NOT interested in taking care of.

In ending: You don't have to care about our situation bcause it does not effect you and no taxes and such are coming out of your pockets in order to help pay the ILLEGAL ALIENS way of life here. To the above social help available, those ILLEGAL ALIENS also are siphoning off the Food Stamp system as well as the Food Bank and other such programs.

I don't know about anyone else here but, I for one am sick and tired of approx 1/3 to 1/2 of MY money being taken away just to se to it that some stupid-lazy ILLEGAL ALIEN can go to the Emergency Room at any nearby Hospital and get their Sore Throat treated when they can simply do as I do-and spend about $4 Dollars on lozenges and Trimeton-which will help them over the sore throat within a few days-as will any Emergency Room visit will do-and for much much cheaper. However, its of my opinions and witnessed experiances to say that they don't choose that route to go down--oh no no no no. Instead, they spend that money buying a few Joints or a 6-pack of cheap beer.

 

Sarcasm begets sarcasm. Don't make the invitation if you don't like the results.

 

Thanks Ike ;-))

Miguel, Mods do give me warnings and we always work things out. I hope your not implying that I can get away with Murder here? Otto and the Mods can ban me anytime they wish. I would not hold any grudge against them if they so decided to. I admit I am very passionate with a lot of my replies and that with most of those-they are not intended to purposely offend the person(s) that I post my reply to.

Case in point-recently ended a problem I was to blame for that was with another forums member-I felt no disgrace in extending an Olive Branch to a person I thought was worthy to do so with. That person was kind enough to accept my Olive Branch.

One thing you might not be aware of is-that there are a good many people here I at onetime or another--"bumped heads" with-and were now pretty good to great friends because of the "clash between Titans."

I can't speak for what Moderators might think about how I conduct myself here-as I have had some of them send me many PMs and emails of support even from a few who have had to "chastise" me a bit in public @ one time or another. I will not release names of Mods who have done so because it would not be fair on my part to call them out in public on this.

Like I said, Otto and any of his Mods can ban me at anytime at their discretion. I have no problem with that and that is part of why Otto and Mods are here for. If a problem child steps out of line-its their Duty to make sure that that Problem Child is aware of it in case they don't realize it.

Also, I am a self-proclaimed Public Scandal and a controversial figure. What I can't stand with someone (meaning no one in particular) can't admit to it.

I am not posting this as a way to suck up to Mods or to Otto--I don't suck up to anyone-never have-never will. I merely try to help this site out with thing I do know about--even if a good portion of it is with threads like this is turning into-that has nothing to do with the things I really "shine" in-such as Militaria, Mil History and Movies.

I will say that I do have loads of respect of the Mods here-all of them-even if at times it does not appear so. These guys know im not here to harm the site-but to participate in it. When all is said and done--I hope that in the least-that it can be said that I made some good contributions here. I have recently tried to stay out of this part of the forums as much as humanly possible but, I find that I have to waste my limited time to come here and argue nonsence with somone who does not understand the American system. I would rather much be spending my time in the Militaria, Movies, Info Requests, Books, WWII Today and General Discussion sites on this website.

Anyway, I don't hate ya-or anything like that but-I do find it irritating to read some of your misguided thoughts and or info-into matters that I do know much much more than you about-and also had years of first-hand experiances with.

Cheers and have a Chili-cheese coney and a Rootbeer for me will ya?

 

Why bother to post arguments against your lame response to the questions? You obviously don't understand the issues, and in any case, your mind is already made up, and your socialist agenda on everything obvious. I don't really care what you think about President Obama's poorly thought out health care plan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of it's faults. As for insulting you, just using rational logic seems to insult you. That's characteristic of Leftists, so I'm not surprised, but don't blame me for your own flaws. If the moderators think my posts are "disgraceful", and imparting a bad reputation to this forum, I've yet, in 15 months of posting, to hear of it. Apparently, your opinion of me isn't widely shared. Regards, DA

 

Hello Carl, hold em horses cowboy

Miguel's statement IMO wasn't in your direction at all.

My parents have lived in the US for almost 30 years - my mother was last to pass away last year.
I' am not very deep into the US social and medical deal - but I have many times wittnessed that all-all- the American friends of my parents mentioned over and over again - how envious they were about my parents medical-social security.

All this has a price - e.g. with a before tax income of around 6000 Euro/month the total deduction of all thinkable taxes results in a nett of 2800 Euro. taxrefund makes it about 3300 Euro nett at the end of the day.

So Germans have to pay a high price indeed for their social security - due to the social system it is the better earning people that have to come up (subsidize) the social funds of the lower income groups.

That is why Germany is considered to be a social economy and not a capitalist economy such as the US.

This has it's negatives and positives on both sides - however I belief that the social underdog group in the US is far more huge than that in Germany
and sooner or later that kettle is going to bust wide open - and the present US government is trying to find a way to prevent this.

That for the so called free and selfreliant Americans this is a total reverse in their brought up/raised way's is easy for me to understand and to follow up on. But what about those Americans that do not belong to the middle class or posess the mid westerners mindset and abilities?

So far no US government has done much or anything to find a solution - Obama at least is trying - give him some credit at least for trying.

Regards
Kruska

 

Hi mi amigo, I knew it wasnt directed at me but just felt that I should help Miguel out by giving him a dose of the truth as I have experianced it and seen it so many times when I worked in Law Enforcement for the State of Texas for more years than I care to admit to ;-))

Now it's time for me to get some desert and relax and finish watching an old Glenn Ford movie about being an Austrian stripped of his Citizenship-passport and such-who is trying to find a pretty Jewish Woman he met and fell in love with. BTW, Erich von Stroheim plays a nasty nazi in this film--perfect role for him.

 

I like watching Miguel and DA argue. It's like watching the Golden Girls. You know it's horrible, scripted, sad, not funny, and way predictable...but you just have to watch! Which one of you is Rose?

 

I think I understand your position and your reasoning, but you are wrong on one count; that there is a massive problem with the "social underdogs" here not receiving medical care and that it will eventually lead to the "kettle busting wide open". In fact, very few people do not receive excellent medical care here. They may not be able to pay for it, but they still receive it.

For example, I lived in Orange County, CA for many years, the population there has grown from about 400,000 to over 3 million in the last 20 years or so. The county, when I lived there had seven major hospitals which operated trauma/emergency units, including two state and county subsidized hospitals. Today, only the two state subsidized emergency rooms remain in operation; all the others found that it was impossible to continue operating because of the monetary drain of their emergency units. I have had occasion to use the emergency services of several of these hospitals on at least four occasions; once for myself and three times for friends and relatives. Each time I visited one of the emergency units I was struck by the numbers of people who were there for treatment of minor colds and flu, muscle strains, infections, chronic diseases like diabetes, emphysema, ulcers, and even normal conditions such as pregnancy. In speaking with emergency room personnel, I discovered that it was common for lower income people and illegal aliens to utilize the emergency units, which cannot deny medical service, as their regular care providers. No matter how many times they visited, or how many of the bills they refused to pay, they couldn't be turned away.

No regular hospital can sustain an emergency unit that is bleeding red ink, but a tax-payer supported hospital is mandated by law to provide that service. So the American tax-payer is supporting the medical care of those people who can't afford it.

What I, as an American, find objectionable about the government mandating health care for everybody is that I will have very few of the choices I enjoy today in seeking my own health care, and I do not believe that any government agency can efficiently manage something as complex as health care. Your own experience in Germany confirms this; it is much more expensive there, as you yourself admit, and I see no better level of care in Germany than here in the US. Moreover, a government administered health care program is fraught with opportunities for fraud, waste, and legalized government pilfering of tax funds.

There are urgent social problems here in the states, but health care isn't one of them. If you really want an example of an urgent problem, consider Social Security. It's a government run pyramid scheme in which everyone but government workers are forced to participate. Due to years of government mismanagement, government "borrowing" from the fund, and the not unforeseen fluctuations in population growth, the Social Security fund is facing bankruptcy in the very near future. That will spell catastrophe for millions of retired people, yet the government has no plan and has not even started to consider the implications. Social Security represents a real social upheaval in the making, but Obama would rather fool around solving a non-problem, than face his responsibility to the American electorate. I will give Obama credit for trying when he really does try to solve a real problem as opposed to furthering his socialist agenda.

 

Question number 11:

As a Liberal were you dropped on your head as a child or did the public screwall system forget to teach you the meaning of common sense

Obamunism doesn't work....I favor the Honduran Option

Hah!

It didn't work with the New Deal under Roosevelt, It was the War Production during WW II that got the US out of the Depression.

It didn't work since 1964 and the Great Society( what a misnomer)

And it didn't work after The New Steal under Obamunism. After 70 Billion of the 700 Billion stimulus was spent the market merely corrected itself.

However Unemployment is outrageous! If these idiots would just realize that poor people don't create jobs or significant tax revenue. Tax cuts to tax payers create spending, jobs, increase in small businesses and a booming economy coupled with No monkey business oil futures and not lending money for mortgages that won't be paid back. And a non cap and con phony economic energy policy. When known polluters(Chinese) are drilling off your pristine coast it makes sense to drill when you have in place safe non polluting technologies( in current operations).

In the real world we use real numbers.....$4 and a cent, oh that must be Still living in my Mom's cellar math.


The State doesn't pay for anything, I, the taxpayer pays.

Audience Shouts Down Sebelius, Specter at Health Care Town Hall in Philadelphia - Political News - FOXNews.com

I love hearing those boo's. Maybe we'll put you up on that stage with Specter....just hope the old folks don't stone you.

 

Slip, I may have worded that post poorly, It was the 11th question not directed at miguel B, just at supporters of Obamacare( ie Ten questions for supporters of Obamacare) see the 11th question provides comic relief for a not so funny political concern. I was addressing the issue of Liberal thinking not individuals. I'll make sure gets plenty of fish and walks.


***Message Understood***

 

This is just me, so take it for what its worth:

I simply do not like people attempting to hold my hand. And that is what I see government run health care as. I can take care of my own business thank you, I do not need a government official to do it for me. I like choices, so I'd like to keep it the way it is. I'm a grown adult, and this is what I looked forward to when I was a teenager, making my own choices. I do not need their help and have no desire of it.


Don't hold my hand! - Bills Motto!

Yours,

Bill