hello this is my first post...i have a two part question ,during the early day of the barbarossa invasion it is said the 37mm AT gun of germans was useless against the russian tanks(doorknocker) ..surely that is true for the t-34 and kv-1 but the overwhelming majority of the 20,000 russian tanks were BT series and T-26 max armor for these was 10-20mm thick the 37PAK could penetrate 24mm at 1500m given its good concealement, that is pretty decent performance against these tanks ....so would it not be fair to say that the 37mmPAK was one weapon which the germans used to great effect in knocking out the hordes of russian light tanks (while their medium tanks along with the 88mm guns dealt with the 500 or so t-34s avalible in the western USSR)...i think the importance of this gun is greatly underestimated in this context ...it must be remembered it was the infantry that destroyed hundreds of these tanks using this gun....
I do agree with you that the "door knocker" term refers to the T-34 and KV series in 1941. Other Russian tanks could be destroyed by the 37 mm AT gun, I think. I´m not sure but the number of 88 mm guns for the whole eastern front was not very high at the beginning of Barbarossa so problems with the better tanks usually meant problems for the Germans. And welcome to the Forums, nastle2000!
THANKS for your views....i am also not sure of the number of 88s avalible on the eastern front in 1941 ....does anybody know about the anti-tank tactics used by german infantry to counter the soviet t-34 and kv-1 in 1941....
True, the 37mm by 1941 was barely adequite as an anti-tank gun. Against everything in the Soviet inventory except the KV-1 and to some extent the T-34 (vulnerable from the side and rear) the 37mm was still useful. The problem for the Germans was simply one of lack of production of replacements. This forced units to soldier on with the 37mm long after its usefulness had been marginallized. As for the 88, most were in Luftwaffe flak units operating with the Wehrmacht. In the East, each Army Group had a Flak Corps attached with about 100 to 150 88mm guns in it. These were spread throughout the army group so for the most part 6 to 12 might be available to a division, if any at all were. Only German mechanized divisions had any 88's in their TO&E. Here again, 6 to 12 were generally available. The 8th S. PzJr Abt with their 18 8.8cm Flak 18 (sfl) auf Sdkfz 12 were the only self-propelled 88 AT unit in existance at the time. This unit was assigned to Army Group Center in 1941.
just 100-150 guns per armygroup around 400 on the entire front!....that is scary ...the soviets i believe had around 1,000 t-34 and KV tanks operational in western russia....correct me if iam wrong...
Thanx TA! If I remember correct the Red Army had some 1,300-1,500 T-34´s and 300-500 KV-1 and KV-2´s when the war started. The problem for the Red Army was that they did not use these tanks in groups but instead sent them to action one by one and giving fire support to the infantry during the autumn 1941. The Red Army losses for tanks was horrible by Dec 1941. Even if they had a huge reserve almost them all had been destroyed by then, i.e. 20,000 tanks of all kinds. Then again, if my memory serves at all well, the Germans were not doing well either, by Jan 1942 some 400 operable tanks of all kinds for the whole eastern front...
surely not all of german tank losses were in combat,perhaps the winter and bad road conditions(for which the german tanks were not really suited)took a greater toll than the red army.
The 37mm PaK 36 wasn't a bad weapon against light tanks, and especially effective when firing a Pz.Gr.40 round. The Pz.Gr.40 was a tungsten core round that could penetrate 64mm @ 100m @ 30 degree from the verticle, and 31mm @ 500m at the same angle. The term "doorknocker" was given to 37mm guns when used against the heavy Char B1 bis and SOMUA S-35's during the Battle of France. Only a few units had Pz.Gr.40 rounds at that point, but by June 1941 they were fairly common for all anti-tank guns. For more information on the PaK 36, check it out on my site by following the link below...
The pic below (from the photo gallery on my website) shows some WW2 subcalibre ammo. The 37x249mm is the German PaK with PzGr.40, the 40x304 the British 2 pdr Littlejohn, the 45x310 the Russian tank/anti-tank gun, the 50x289 the German L/42 (short) tank gun. I have since acquired a 50x419 (long) case with a PzGr.40 - I'll have to add it to the photo sometime! Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
As far as I know the general tactic used in the case of attacks by armour, was for the infantry to fall back. While this delaying action was going on, anti-tank positions/ambushes were prepared in the rear using the scarce AT guns and other assets. It is also worth pointing out that a tank without mobility is not very useful, and the much maligned 37mm could at least get "mission-kills" on T-34s by knocking off tracks.
