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6th Army commander.

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by FramerT, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. Wolfy

    Wolfy Ace

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    Paulus was reputably a tremendously good staff officer, but he was quite overpromoted as a commander of the 6th Army.
     
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Nawwww, don't say that...

    Either that or simple lack of vision. I remember von Luck's description of Balck's work at blasting off a Soviet Tank Brigade, and when you read the description from the opposing side you read the story of a tank corps who sent a vanguard brigade ahead as a sacrifice while the rest of the corps just got around the busy Germans and went for the real strategic objective, which they took. Makes you think, doesn't it?
     
  3. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Miguel, if you will V~E~R~Y C~A~R~E~F~U~L~L~Y read my posting, you (should) be able to get the jist of my posting and of the connection of my Army Group Center referances without further 'splanations needed. :headbash:
     
  4. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    True Paulus was good at shuffeling papers and pushing pencils, however, he was no Manstein or Guderian. Part of what I mean by this is also he did not have the field experiance as the above mentioned Generals had-and should never have been elevated to command the 6th Army.

    Not that you were but-don't even get me started about Hermann Goring :rolleyes:
     
  5. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    If your talking about the "Saturn" operations-the Russians got lucky in that they had so much American lend-lease vehicles-to be able to allow them to pull off their encirclements. When having hundreds of 2 & 1/2 ton trucks given to you, you can do some amazing things with them, such as transporting hundreds of thousands of soldaten over vast distances and in a miraculously short amount of time.

    Also, my Opa-made "runs" to Russia during the war delivering such supplies. I wish I had his log book in my possession-so I could tell you when he saied, to where he sailed and what exactly he delivered-of course-that is, before November 2nd, 1944 and his "meeting up with" U 181 and Kapitan zur See Kurt Freiwald.
     
  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Sorry Carl, but Saturn (yes, that's what I mean) was too early (December '42) to benefit from the Lend-Lease cornucopia. This operation's spearheads were based on tanks, desantnyki and good old horse cavalry. The infantry walked. There were no roads in the snow steppe to benefit the yet non-existing trucks.

    Now if you want to talk about mid 1943 (Kursk Defensive, Kutuzov and Rumiantsev Operations) then that's something else, but for Stalingrad no, too early.

    Engines of the Red Army in WW2 - Numbers
     
  7. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    I don't remember what titles I read some of the lendlease info in-and interesting info about the"Saturns" but, lend-lease sure did have an impact on the Russians abilities to do said encirlclments. Like I said, I wish I had my Grandfathers Ships log book with his records written by himself-listed throughout the logbook-or i'd gladly tell you more. However, I don't have it in my possession and cannot quote much of anything. Anyway, in at least two of the "Stalingrad" before and after-as well as I think at least one Kursk title I have--therre indeed was plenty of mention about lend-lease Shermans and Deuce and a halfs-impacts on the Russian capabilities of quickly being able to surround vast German formations on the Eastern Front-using American built Vehicles and weapons.
     
  8. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Sure, Carl, I'm not saying the opposite, the success of the Kursk counter-offensives and all operations after that depended in great measure on the LL equipment and materials. My point is that for the Stalingrad encirclement the timing is "not yet".
     
  9. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    That's just it, I never said that LL had much of anything (and injecting but except for food) to impact the outcome-or the final outcome for the Battle of Stalingrad ;-)) I guess you can add to "Stalingrad" that the Russians sure did have American manufactured ammunition for American manufactured Artillery pieces-that indeed were used during the fighting at Stalingrad.

    A good friend os mines Father-was a Medical Sergeant that was attached to some unit @ Stalingrad. I do know for a fact that this man (who later became a successful Doctor and lives in the Konstanz area-told me that he personally saw many items that the Russians were using-that said "Made In the USA." This included discarded rations boxes and tins-to artillery shell casings found at destroyed Russian positions.

    Now, I do not know if Herr Giehler would be willing to reply to anything dealing with Stalingrad and or his experiances during the war, but if you wish-I will ask his Daughter-to see what we can ask about. Oh and before I forget-Herr Giehler-was one of those 6,000 who came back. Herr Giehler attempted to break out of the pocket sometime in late January-and was headed in the direction where the relief attacks were taking place-but was cought-along with several of his Comrades-about 7-10 days later.

    Herr Giehler along with many thousands of his comrades-were forcably marched to camps in Siberia. Along the way, many Germans, Romanians, Italians, Hungarians and even a few Spaniards-died from lack of food, medical care (with the exception of what Herr Giehler and other Medics could do) and those prisoners were starved to death. During herr Giehlers 12+ years stay as a "guest" of several Gulags, he saw many dozens of thousands of captured soldiers die because of mal-neutrition, being forced to labor-so were worked to death, as well as for the lack of medical supplies to deal with their needs.

    I can't say much more other than that this mans life was not a very happy one-meaning post-war and post-release life. He fathered one child (my friend) and had one marriage-which didn't last but a few years. Herr Giehler is now retired, and not only myself-but his Daughter-have tried to get him to write down his memories so that they will not be lost forever. So far-both of us have been unsuccessful in getting him to reflect on his experiances.

    There's a LOT of things that we don't know about what really went on-on the Eastern Front. A LOT of things are thought to bese be forgotten about. No matter how many books are written on the Battle of Stalingrad, we only know portions to the puzzle.
     
  10. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    We're very comfortable in our easy chairs, aren't we?
     
  11. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    ???
     
  12. bf109 emil

    bf109 emil Member

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    there is a lot of criticism towards Paulus, and this is fine but with the same equipment and troops, fighting in the same destroyed rubble would a von Manstein or a Guderian and have actually captured the west bank of the Volga?? Perhaps but maybe these other 2 would have had the wisdom to disobey Hitler and removed armour and had a plan to defend an encirclement, Paulas might have had the same idea, but he was faithful and could follow an order from OKH might have been his biggest crime.
    .....I would like proof that Paulas didn't have field experience
    Paulas best advice to Hitler prior to Barbarossa, rather then to capture trophy cities as numerous Field Commanders in the Wehrmacht where apt to do, his advice held true and because it was or towns and cities captured the heart of the Soviet army it's troops where able to retreat, just what Paulus warned Hitler against
    Paulus suggestions and plans for a war in Russia to encircle troops was noteworthy, but his failing to do so was caused by the slowness of Hoth's 4th Panzer army to catch up from the south, then the 4th slowing for heavy fighting and then a lack of fuel
    Paulas was not ignorant as to what the soviets where doing
    - Perhaps someone from this form has actually read Paulus's account of Stalingrad through his own words
    source for quotesFriedrich Von Paulus
     
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