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Churchill Named Britain's Greatest Gentlemen of the Last Century

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by PzJgr, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Same here I'm afraid, the first one would probably be a nerd from a TV reality show followed by a rapper and a football player.
     
  2. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Id suggest folk start with Alan Whicker...and then compare. A soldier too.

    France...I'd go for Paul Rynaud...Spelling? Its as much about the projection as the mind. I of course am no gentleman...Slip may be...we should vote..Send jugs on a mission so he doesnt get upset with no nominations though.
     
  3. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    UK : Churchill or French

    France : Foch or Clemenceau

    Germany :Hindenburg or Kaiser Wilhelm

    USA : Hoover or Roosevelt

    Russia : Nicolas II or Gorbatchev

    They may not all be gentlemen but they were all great men.
     
  4. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Hindenburg...For me...I'd add Rundstedt.

    Piroux from France?

    Carter...Now I've done it...from USA. I'll add Reagan though so I don't get lynched..

    Still with Alan whicker from UK but adding Allenbrooke...

    Martin and Slip from WW2 forums whoever that is..

    Owen and DBF from ww2 Talk...can Dbf be a gentlewoman instead?

    Oh and a surprise addition....Clementine...and Mcrusk...more gentlemen than most of us.

    Belsar...apprentice Gentleman...Lou..blimey I'll stop...too many yanks showing Brits how to be gentlemen...Skip you can't be...sorry your into escargot I believe...a gentleman would never eat a snail.
     
  5. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Hey! You forgot Australia! We have truck loads of gentlemen! Lets see theres.....i mean remember....you know that one...with the eyes...? Oh okay...
     
  6. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Australia? Yep, blue boy...then there's...err..skippy...err...who was that lad in the magic boomarang?

    Australia and gentlemen....Cac's avin a laff....
     
  7. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

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    What a bunch of rubbish! First off, you lose major points for calling Churchill "a lunatic". Churchill was many things, but lacking full control of his mental faculties was not one of them.

    Secondly, he did not almost lose the war for Britain. That was Neville Chamberlain. Churchill sustained England in its darkest hour. It was his dogged determination that

    Thirdly, the only person responsible for civilian deaths was Hitler. The sine qua non for EVERY death in that war was Hitler's decision to invade Poland. Everything that happens is his fault. I will also say that targeting civilians is a legitimate method to wage war. An army and government receives it's support from the people. By attacking the people you attack the opposing forces at its foundation. I have no problem with Dresden, Tokyo, Hamberg, etc….especially in light of the carnage that both Germany and Japan wrought. They each made no bones about their respect for the laws of war. The allies simply followed suit.
     
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  8. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

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    Churchill has his drawbacks to be sure, but let's be honest here. Churchill was not alone in pushing for Gallipoli. His decision certainly was not a wise one, but to place all blame on him for that debacle is absurd.

    Winston was a splendid wartime PM, but a horrid peacetime PM. Criticizing his wartime ventures seems a bit unfit as such fault findings often overlook the role of the adversary in the outcome and the foibles of the general staff. Plus,Winnie is hardly alone when it comes to dubious strategic decisions. One only need to look at Napoleon. His Egyptian, Spanish, and Russian campaigns were all disastrous. Hundreds of thousands of french lives were destroyed because of the Great Napoleon's awful decisions.Yet, he is widely perceived as the greatest military mind of the past 500 years.
     
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  9. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Glad you brought up Gallipoli...might mention being effectively abandoned by Churchill during WW2 also...even though we came to its aid not once but twice...we STILL cant forgive you mob for leaving our d%%ks swinging in the wind. You lost a friend and brother back then. And the US gained one.
     
  10. lost knight

    lost knight Member

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    Carter? Reagan? It's truely hard to appreciate a leader from a nation where you do not live.

    Perhaps Nicholas II is the best canidate for a 'Gentleman' ; but a 'Great Man' ? His inepitude (really from the start of his rule) helped a clear non-gentleman, great man (Lenin) take over Russia.

    Let's define 'Great'.

    I'd suggest a person that exercises great power or causes world changing events, that may be for 'good' or 'evil'. There is also a question as to success at your efforts. Napoleon was Great but ultimately failed.

    Hindenburg and Ludendorff , I think, illustrate the difference of 'Gentleman' and 'Great'.
     
  11. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Hmm who is Piroux ? :confused:

    Snails are for gentlemen Beckham eats some, he even moved to Paris to catch more in the stadiums. :D
     
  12. Messy1

    Messy1 Member

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    Carter and Hoover would not make my list for great men from the US. I would suggest Eisenhower for his leadership during WW2, and his years as president. Perhaps Reagan just for his dealings with the Soviet Union, but he is not the mythic super hero he is made out to be by some here in the U.S.
     
  13. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    Churchill would have been amused by the award.
    As for the claim he had a healthy disrespect for women, he was actually a faithful and loving husband, the woman he made the remark to was someone he didn't like on a personal level, not because of her gender.
     
  14. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Partly my fault..but going off on tangents chaps...Great? can only be considered in the context of this poll not great in any other meaning.

    Leaders of countries...See I knew there would be trouble....Reagan is not my idea of a great leader...Gentleman though...He fits much of the De Brets mold.
    Thatcher and Gorbachev prove the point...Both seen to be great leaders by those outside their own countries...Thatcher to me was is a...I wont say..But she will never have a marked grave in this country...I doubt that very much. Reagan I knew would upset many...
    But we are looking at gentlemen here not leaders or even politicians.

    I for my part only know of one real gentleman that fits the bill that I know of...Ron Goldstein..ww2 talk...read some of his posts and you will see a real gentleman at work.
     
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    My impression is that Reagan was indeed a Gentleman. I wouldn't rate him as a great leader either. Again my impression is that he was only marginally competent during his presidency but he had a good team of advisors and they did a very good job. Carter I would also rate as a gentleman and in his case I think it actually got in the way of him being a good leader at least in the international realm.
     
  16. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    He drove for Renault and Ferrari back in the the turbo era.....

    ( Oh - that may have been Arnoux.....;) )
     
  17. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    It's René Arnoux ( Villeneuve's generation) Noblesse Oblige Sir Bull.... :)
     
  18. lost knight

    lost knight Member

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    It's very hard to see foriegn leaders in the way a 'local' sees them. As the saying goes, 'All politics are local', and foriegn affairs that catch the eye of an international observer are often considered far less important than more mundane topics like health care or welfare reform. Reagan is rather unpopular in circles that are not conservative. Carter is remembered for his handling of Iran, a sad speech on the economy (I don't know what to do. Do you?), and when he told the world while standing between the leaders of Egypt and Israel that they had come together in true Christian spirit at Camp David. In Russia I was suprised to find Gorbachev very unpopular. Many in the US see Thatcher as the great 'Iron Madien' that stood up to the Argentine generals. But I do not doubt that Russians and British have far better views on these two than an American that has only heard a sound bite on a short news program.
     
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  19. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I'm going to be wrong again...piroux the calvalry General who took over 1st Army in France around Lille? Or one of the divisions and by doing so probably helped the Dunkirk evacuation and showed France was still fighting and made of some stern stuff.
     
  20. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    I see three points of irony in all of this. First, by the standards from which he came from ( a long line of John Bull types) who created, expanded, maintained (and profited from) the British Empire, he would be considered a 'Great Gentleman'. of the first order. Granted this status, came at the expense of anyone not English and a fair number who were. The second point of irony is that of the poll and those who answered it. We live in a far more casual era where the meaning of a 'Gentleman' has become imprecise. No doubt those who responded felt it meant Famous, noteworthy or powerfull, and again by those standards, it would be a correct assesment of Churchill. The final irony is in ourselves who seem to be offering up other political leaders as examples of 'Gentlemen'. For me a gentleman was Will Rogers, Jimmie Stewart, and such like.
     

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