DIESEL AND GASOLINE

I just read a thread about tanks and how they are flameable:http://www.ww2f.com/armored-fighting-vehicles/50775-myths-wwii-armor.html
And I heard alot of talk about how diesel isnt very flameable if at all flameable, and how most modern day tanks use diesel. Diesel seems to be very good fuel for vehicles and it left me with a few questions....
If diesel is not flameable, why would anyone even think of using gasoline?
What are the up sides to gasoline in tanks?

This really interests me so please get back to me ASAP

 

Diesel and gasoline are very different. I am going to let wiki explain it:

Here are some links:

Petrol engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diesel engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IN short Gasoline engines are much less complicated and easier to produce than Diesel engines; however, diesel engines are capable of creating more horsepower at lower RPMs than Gas motors. The down side to diesel is that it has a higher boiling point than gasoline which causes it to gel at temperature at or near freezing. Alcohol, or other chemicals, is added to prevent this from happening in colder climates and during the winter.

 

isn't Petrol a more refined distilate? Has a higher octane level?....Out of my comfort zone here...Less impurities, burns cleaner and...easier.

 

My only answer as to why anyone would use gasoline is the example of our forces in the ETO during WWII. Our people wanted one fuel only; one for all vehicles. Our tanks were built with diesel engines and we gave some to the Soviets to use and some were used in the PTO. I don't know what advantages one has with gas other than that...maybe cold weather starting?

 

Many of the early Sherman models were powered by Radial Aircraft engines which ran on gasoline. I ability to ship large quantities of the same fuel during WW2 is really no different than what the military does now as all vehicles -Trucks, Tanks, HMMWVs, and Cook stoves can all utilze either diesel or Jet Fuel.

 

How about smoke generated by D vs G?

 

Smoke is generated by pouring diesel fuel on the exhaust manifold and beings that diesel engines run cooler than gas motors and diesel has a higher flash point than gasoline it just makes losts of fluffy white smoke. Now if you pour gasoline on an exhaust manifold there is a good chance the smoke you create is going to be black with a lot of orange flames mixed in with it. Gasoline has a very low boiling/flash point with a very tolerant fuel to air ratio for ignition. Not a good idea to have a gasoline smoke generator.

 

But wouldn't smoke generated by the D engine be a giveaway in battle where the G engine produces less smoke therefore more stealthy?

 

Sorry about that bud, I thought you were talking about using one motor or the other being used to create a smoke screen.

Diesels have very little visible exhaust when they are warmed up. Most of the visible exhaust from a diesel will be when the engine is under load; such as rapid acceleration or extreme load such as going up hill. The exhaust they do emit often times will be dark grey or black, which stands out less on a battlefield than the white exhause produced by gas motors.

 

There is another important difference between diesel engines and petrol engines - peak power. Typically, a petrol engine will produce more power per litre of displacement than a diesel engine. A diesel engine will provide better fuel economy per litre of displacement than a petrol engine.

So, if power is the most important consideration, petrol engines will prevail. This is why the vast majority of military aircraft in WWII used petrol engines rather than diesels. On the ground, torque, economy and flammability considerations might favour diesel over petrol tanks.

 

When some one says something like "diesel won't burn" it's worth considering the implications. Like what use would it be as a fuel in an internal combustion engine if it didn't burn?

 

I don't think anyone said diesel "doesn't burn" and it looks like we all agree that diesel has a higher flashpoint and is slower to burn than gasoline

 

It may clarify a bit to know that from a given amount of crude oil we can in a practical way get a certain amount of gasoline and a certain amount of diesel from what is mined. If the crude is thick (full of heavy oils) then we will get more diesel. If the crude is light (lighter oils) we will get more gasoline. We have technologies now that enable us to 'crack' the molecules of the heavier oils to make more gasoline if that is what is needed. We can also increase the amount of gasoline by combining the heavier components that come off of natural gas such as propane, pentanes etc. to mix with the product gasoline from crude oil. We also now make corn products that are combined with gasoline that helps stretch it out and is helpful in creating a proper mixture of correct gasoline. Alone this corn mixture is more expensive but it contributes to the volume and also the quality of the gasoline. My 2 cents from out of the oil patch.

 

Well there is the initial post which contained:

 

Good grief.....find another pot to stir; the kid didn't understand we explained it.

 

Yep and I just pointed out a little thought first about the implications would probably have helped him phrase it a bit better and or do a little research first.

I seem to recall for instance that the hydraulic fluid for the M-60s was chosen/configured to be fairly "hard to ignite" yet they had significant problems with hydraulic fuel fires when hit by AT weapons.

 

Another point is that the gasoline won´t have a problem in cold weather like the diesel had. And i write "had" for the reason that they hadn´t the diesel technology of todays world. If you dont use the diesel correct than it freezes and you had a lot of paraffin in your diesel filters. As you know they used petroleum or gasoline to make it thinner during the winter. No warm up of anything with the Gasoline engines in the russian winter. It made it easier.

 

I thought I remembered reading that the Germans did have some problems with starting their tanks in cold weather. Was this a lubricant problem rather than a fuel problem?

 

Actually diesel is "combustable" but not flammable.
The defenition that I have seen is that it will ignite at temps lower than ~62c (~140f)

Not exactly near freezing
Standard diesel #2 will start to gel at -22c (-5f)
This would be from parked tanks, if it's kept running then the engine will keep the fuel filter etc warm

One major reason for the British to use gasoline engines rather than diesel was the lack of available diesel engines with enough power