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Fallschirmjager ever used on Russian front?

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by Generalfeldmarschall Matthew Bluhm, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    The Brits told the natives that the germans are horrible and all are murderers and won´t do nothing more than kill all the people at Crete. So the simple farmers believed them and killed a number of German soldiers with forks knives their own handgrenades and more. Such senless actions were the base to the atrocitis of the german forces against the people of Kondomani.

    I understood that with Bauer and it is correct, there were many worse types of commandants at the german side.
     
  2. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    :eek: :D:D:D:D

    I think you need to read some of the material on Crete over again!

    NOONE needed to tell the Cretans anything to make them fight invaders! They were the most pugnacious of a fighting nation - with a major grudge against the Axis anyway, the loss of the Greek 5th (Cretan) division on the mainland. Even before the Germans arrived the Cretans loved the British - for they were arming them in both open and secret - organising the 1,000-man regiments among the locals, and John Pendlebury's attempt to set up a stay-behind guerilla movement - which the Greek Government tried to stop because THEY had had enough trouble with the independent Cretans! They'd had to disarm them...sorry, attempt to disarm them :D...after a rising in 1937-8.

    This was a people who habitually went armed - and used said weapons. Every male carried a knife....and often a rifle, and weren't averse to using either or both in family vendettas. Nor was there anything "simple" about the Cretans - don't forget Crete was the home of the Venezelist Independence movement in Greece!...and they were THE most expert livestock thieves in the Western hemisphere!

    What's "senseless" about fighting invaders??? The Germans didn't do much research if they thought the Cretans would welcome them with open arms :D And remember, the two Cretan regiments that the Germans fought, and the Cretan constabulary WERE obeying the terms of the Hague Rules on Land Warfare in being formated under officers...a Leeve En Masse in effect; what was senseless is that Kurt Student wrote a blantant breach of the HRLW regarding the treatment of armed civilians into his "ten rules" for the FJ! :eek:
     
  3. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Not sure if you haven´t understood or you won´t?

    That isn´t out of any Wehrmacht propaganda news sh... it is out from history books and from vet´s mouth and not only germans....

    Oh, i´m sure that the Cretans didn´t thought to set up a welcome party for the Germans! And its fine that you´re in the guess of the Cretan history, and i´m sure that some of the cretans farmers were really smart guys. So i go and drop my books about Crete in the garbage and hope you´ll betray me the titles of your books. Otherwise i fear, i have to die as a idiot.
     
  4. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    History books like Beevor's "Crete: The Battle and the Resistance", Callum MacDonald's "Crete: The Lost Battle", Alan Clarke's "The Fall of Crete", George Psycoundakis' "The Cretan Runner", Billy Moss' original "Ill Met By Moonlight", Xan Fielding's "The Stronghold", Murray Elliot's "Vasili: The Lion of Crete"?
     
  5. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Beevors book on Crete wasn´t his best work, it is very one sided out of the british view and gives you the feeling that the brits lost the battle only by some own errors, not for the germans. His book about Stalingrad is much better. George Psycoundakis is a good source. Bill Moss´book about the kidnapping of General Kreipe in 1944 isn´t what i would use as a good source for the time of the invasion and short after. The other ones are unknown to me, but i will pick them up and read.

    Don´t know if you are able to read in german language, but here are not bad books too:

    Heinz A. Richter von Harrassowitz: "Operation Merkur, Die Eroberung der Insel Kreta im Mai 1941"

    Georg Vardakis: "Als der Krieg nach Kreta kam"
     
  6. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    Actually - this is true! BUT you need to read Beevor side-by-side with Clark...

    Clark is regarded now as very dated BECAUSE he wrote before ULTRA/Bletchley was known about again, let alone its influence on Freyberg's conduct of the campaign...

    But exactly because of this, he spends a lot more time discussing the various...um..."shortcomings" of the Commonwealth senior offciers, and the WIDE range of mistakes made by Andrews, Hargest, Kippenberger etc....

    These have paled into undeserved insignificance somewhat over time when reckoned against the major mistakes Freyberg made because of ULTRA and the position it put him in - but if you add the TWO sets of command errors together...:eek::eek::eek:

    It's amazing they even lasted seven days!
     
  7. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    That and the WW1style education of those commanding officer with their stiff thinking in one Front war and trench war. That was a big mistake and you can find those mistake in the acting of Wavell and Auchinleck in Africa too.
     
  8. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    Freyberg was regarded as a bit of a "go-getter", by Winston too...and I was hard put to understand why he seemed so hands-off in Clark's history; but the constraints put upon him by ULTRA and his deeper knowledge of the Axis plans NOW explainn that...

    But his subordinates' many mistakes are far harder to understand.

    There was indeed a specific issue with outdated Australian and NZ infantry tactics - they hadn't rolled out the 1938 revision of infantry tactics IIRC - but there were very major oversights made by all the officers I mentioned.

    Best to pick up a copy of Clark, it's easy to get hold of, and MacDonald too; he's more detailed about events than Clark, and although when he was writing the influence of ULTRA was starting to become apparent...he isn't has bound into this as an overwhelming factor for the Commonwealth failure as Beevor is. The latter, tho' very detailed, is far too anxious to make a point (he does this in other books too, I don't find him that readable).
     
  9. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    OK, i´ll look for Clark and MacDonald.

    It was that hold on to the old tactics that made the "Blitz" working!
     

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