Fate of german civilians under allied occupation

There are some books about the alleged brutal occupation of Germany after the war. One claims that Eisenhower deliberately starved Germans and that 9 million Germans died as a result.

This book is one of them. Note the high marks it gets.

Amazon.com: Crimes and Mercies: The Fate Of German Civilians Under Allied Occupation, 1944-1950: James Bacque: Books

My question is this true. A book or books can claim anything it wants, but I acknowledge that it is possible that a cover up did occur. I just have a hard time believing that 9 million deaths could be covered up--particularly on the Allied side of things.

Thoughts?

 

You can read up on the author here:

James Bacque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems to be the big argument with his works is that while the allied treatment of a conquered Germany has been ignored, the numbers 'dead' are far too high.

 

I can't say for those figures being real or not but-I met many German Veteran over the years and not one of them had anything negative to say about Ike. In fact, all of these vets loved him for what he tried to do for the German people. Had Ike been involved or had anything instituted in order to purposely kill millions of German Civilians, I think that at least one of these German Vets I met-would have known something about this. Therefore-based on what I was told by these men-no I do not believe that Ike or any allied member-had anykind of hushed up secret plan that was enacted in order to make millions of Germans starve to death.

It seems to me as if I had heard of the author in question-sometime years ago. Back then, I heard he was a quack. He reminds me of david irving whom everyone knows is a anic:ed nut case.

 

What makes me question it is the enormous numbers. 9 MILLION? Uh, if such a thing occurred, how did no one hear of it? That would be equivalent to 1/7th of Germany's population. Sounds a bit absurd if you ask me.

And this doesn't jive with the US's post war actions--the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift. That does not sound like the actions of a vengeful, cruel nation.

 

I would not think so,that Ike would ever do bad things to Germans in peace time!
Ike does have family members that a german,and Ike does have german blood.

Alot of people that move to another country or have parents from that country,they always seem to try and stick up for there homeland,even though they live in another country.

 

My point exactly! Had Ike been involved with the mass deaths of German Civilians, I highly doubt he'd have seen to it that the Marshall Plan was as hugely successful as it was. As for the Berlin Airlift-almost immediatley-the Russians started trouble and had or were threatening to do-shoot down American Transport Aircraft. I remember a German LW Flak Sergeant I met at a gunshow in San Antonio years ago-who told me that he was in Berlin at the time of the Airlift and remembers that some of the aircraft had to fly so low to the ground-to avoid any trouble with all the air space restrictions that the Soviets imposed on the Western Allies. Anyway, he said they flew so low to the ground that you could easily recignize the faces of the crews flying in these supplies.

This vet said that some went out of their way to make special bundles-just for children which included all-kinds of candies and such. The children certainly loved our aircrews. At the same time, he said you could sometimes see Soviet fighter aircraft shadowing and sometimes acting like they were about to shoot down our aircraft because they would slip in behind our guys-fully knowing that THEY were in direct violation of our vastly restricted airspace. I had Uboat vets also tell me of their praise for our aircrews.

 

James Bacque has been quite convincingly shown to have been perpetrating a falsehood for his own gains (monetary, anti-Americanism, or both) in the same manner as Mr. Irving. In Mr. Irving’s case it is directed toward pro-Nazi anti Jew, in Bacque’s case it seems to be pro-German, anti-Eisenhower.

Consult the book Eisenhower and the German POWS: Facts Against Falsehoods. The allegation originated with a Canadian novelist called James Bacque and has been totally discredited.

Goto:

Stephen Ambrose: A Review of 'Other Losses'

An excerpt:

Our first conclusion was that Mr. Bacque had made a major historical discovery. There _was_ wdiespread mistreatment of German prisoners in the spring and summer of 1945. Men were beaten, denied water, forced to live in open camps without shelter, given inadequate food rations and inadequate medical care. Their mail was withheld. In some cases prisoners made a "soup" of water and grass in order to deal with their hunger. Men did die needlessly and inexcusably. This must be confronted, and it is to Mr. Bacque's credit that he forces us to do so.

Our second conclusion was that when scholars do the necessary research, they will find Mr. Bacque's work to be worse than worthless. It is seriously - nay, spectacularly - flawed in its most fundamental aspects. Mr. Bacque misuses documents; he misreads documents; he ignores contrary evidence; his statistical methodology is hopelessly compromised; he makes no attempt to look at comparative contexts; he puts words into the mouth of his principal source; he ignores a readily available and absolutely critical source that decisively deals with his central accusation; and, as a consequence of these and and other shortcomings, he reaches conclusions and makes charges that are demonstrably absurd.

This "gentleman" falls quite nicely into the same category as David Irving (sensationalist), and we all appreciate Mr. Irving for what he is. Mr. Irving was shown in court to have done much the same, mis-quoting documents, manipulating documented statistics, and ignoring all contradictory evidence to advance his own agenda. That is my "take' on Mr. Bacque at least.

 

If you do a search on diet and post war Germany you'll find quite a few documents. Food was scares in almost all of Europe post war and Germany had probably the harshest restrictions but the casualty count mentioned is pure BS.

 

germany had it worse than any other european country,stalin had blocked all food aid comming into germany.
Also,in briton until in the 1950's,British persons were on food rashons,that must explain why so many people left british shores to come to Australia,newzealand and Canada,in one whole mass of persons.

 

Also, I wonder if the figures quoted in the book include civilians on the verge of death at the time the war ended. For example, how many concentration camp survivors died within the weeks after the war's official closure? Might the author have included those numbers in his calculations? Also, how many people died from infections and other incidents of the war that had nothing to do with the occupation?

I know that the Allies did allocate more resources to displaced people (DPs) than to German civilians but that was only fair. The DPs were not in Germany of their own accord and they had suffered the most at the hands of Hitler's Germany. For that matter, feeding the occupation army had to take precedent over feeding the German populace, especially in the early months of the occupation.

 

That's not quite correct. He couldn't block food aid coming into the west and I'm pretty sure the Soviets sent food aid into the East.

 

Do a search on the authors name and terms like refute or errors and you'll get a lot of hits. He apparently used a lot of techniques that go beyond "shaky".

 

Darn it,wrong again!
So what's the purpose of the American berlin airlift,when food can get into germany and starlin was also giving food aid?
That's what got me confussed lol.

 

The Berlin Airlift was post-war, by a few years. Stalin tried to "starve" the wester allies out of their sections of occupied Berlin by blocking off the water and road routes into Berlin from the west and north. Didn't work, and made Stalin look the "bully" and the fool.

Goto:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8046296.stm

This has an article on the anniversary of the Airlift.

 

I believe this "number" was proven false, and for the simple reason that Mr. Bacque looked at numbers and made the conclusion jump (of world-class proportions), that the numbers of "losses" all related to deaths while in the holding camps.

The truth of the matter was that a great many of the men/boys were just disarmed and sent home. If they were over 60 (or so), home they went, if they were under 18, home they went. The numbers were of men still HELD, and reflected both those who did die, of various causes, and those who just went home who were NOT counted in the camps anymore, they weren't there.

 

wiki seems to have a differing view on this, but i am on the fence on who is more accurate on this one

 

Pure BS.
For certain Germany was flattened by war's end and there were huge logistical problems with medicine and food, and people were dying who might have been saved in better times. But there was nothing malicious in IKE's charactor or in his actions that I ever heard of. If the author is looking to cast blame he should lay it at Herr Hitler's doorstep. Now the Soviet occupations were pretty brutal but nobody was in much of mood to take them on!
JeffinMNUSA
PS. These are some serious allegations though-and should be investigated; http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm

 

Actually Fast1,I just read a full page on another forum about Einsenhower delberatley wanted to strave and murderd all germans!
Ike even mention the statement- I HATE All GERMANS! And he confess to trying to wipe all Germans off the earth!
On the other hand general Patton (captain blood)he actually let his prisoners go,so they had a chance to survive!(does not match his nick name does it now)lol.

I am not sure i am aloud to post another forum on this forum,so i can't actually show you! it may be against the rules.

 

You mis-read the page obviously, Ike said nothing of the sort. That quote from Mr. Bacque has been discredited fully. Ike did hate all "Nazis", and eventually fired his life-long friend George Patton since he wasn't following the de-nazification orders closely enough, and Patton then made the mistake of comparing Nazis to the American Republican or Democratic politiacl parties.

That was the last straw and Ike relieved him of command. And BTW Patton never let a single soldier/prisioner go during the war "so they could survive". That is bunk, I don't have a clue where you picked up that piece of mis-information unless it was also included in that crap book by Bacque.