French & Czech tanks east front

How long were these used? what numbers, & when were they stopped being built.

 

Just to start things off,
French gear in it's original form was used mostly as anti-partisan and rear echelon equipment, many French chassis were converted to SPG configurations that were more likely to see 'front line' service.
The Czech Pz.38(t) was produced until June 42 but Czech production carried on right to the end with kit like the PzJgr.38(t) (or Hetzer). How much service they saw in the east I can't say offhand.
Cheers,
Adam.

 

The Czech 35 and 38 tanks saw service through the entire war. Initially with the Germans and later with Slovak and Hungarian forces. In modified forms such as the Marder, GW 38 and Flakpz 38 this chassis became a staple of the German army.
French tanks are a bit different story. Production ended with the fall of France. A portion of the captured vehicles were initially used with local occupation forces. Romania received a portion of the H 39s captured as these were in service with that nation already.
The Germans made very little use of captured French tanks as tanks. Some were used as munitions carriers with the turrets removed. Others were used on various fronts in anti-partisan duties. One reason that many French tanks did not get used more as combat tanks was that they were simply poorly human engineered and marginal in that role.
The reconstituted 21st Panzer division (which came from the basis of a locally orgainzed panzer division) was initially equipped with the best of the French captures; the S35 and H 39. These were replaced by mid 44 almost entirely with proper German equipment, the French vehicles going to local defense units.
One vehicle that did see widespread service was the Lorraine Chinlette munitions carrier. A number were converted to carry a French 155mm howitzer and almost another 300 became one of the Marder series.
Note, that of the French tanks, the one least used was the Char B1 bis. This vehicle saw little service in German hands; a likely indication of its true functional value.
Some other oddities that ended up in German service included a number of Schneider self propelled 194mm guns. This chassis ran on electric drive power being supplied by a second generator vehicle operating as a train. One battalion was sent to the seige of Leningrad.

 

Did find this.

The B1-bis was the main battle tank of the French army in 1940. Considered one of the most powerful and advanced tanks in the world, it was hampered only by it's low speed and cost of production. Studies started in 1935. Had the B1-bis been better employed, it would have easily defeated any invading German tank in 1940.

 

A small number of French tanks was provided to the Allies, Romania, Hungary, etc. The Germans themselves used a number on rear-echelon units for lines-of-communication security duties, i.e., anti-partisan warfare. The SP guns von Poop says were in the main produced and employed in France proper.

The 38(t) chassis and power train were mechanically very good, and as tanks proper they were becoming obsolete (37mm guns) soon the chassis were kept in production as SP guns, Marder I and III, and later Hetzers, among other uses.

Picking up Chamberlain & Doyle's Encyclopedia of German Tanks (wow! I'm not looking up a website but a real book!! ) ,

* Ausf A-D were produced til Nov'40, 325 units,
* Ausf E-F, til Oct'41, 525 units,
* Ausf G, til Dec'41, 90 units

There were also 321 Ausf S produced from Oct'41-Jun'42 to a Swedish spec, but these were supplied to Slovakia, serving in the East Front.

On to the SPGs

Marder I - 344 from Apr-Oct'42 (a few to North Africa)
Marder III
- Ausf H - 242 produced Nov'42-Apr'43
- ditto - 175 converted from tanks in '43

- Ausf M - 975 from Apr'43-May'44

Add to this some 300 Grilles, 140 Flakpanzer, and then 2,584 Hetzers from Apr'44-May'45

 

And, completely untrue. This sort of tripe is repeated frequently and is based solely on a measure of the Char B1 bis' armor, firepower, and mobility taken in the most coarse way with no consideration of the human side of the equation.
As I see it, the Char B1 could best be described as a self propelled field fortification; an artillery bunker with a motor. The 75mm in the hull was fixed in train (no travese). Using it against anything other than a stationary target or as an artillery piece was difficult or impossible. As an antitank weapon it was useless.
Note, like its cousins in the Maginot line it was a very heavy piece for its size. It also had a pneumatic blow out to remove fumes from the tank like guns in the Maginot line did.
The driver of the tank was the gunner for this weapon having a bionocular sight for this purpose (in addition to a single view port for driving the tank). Obviously, driving and operating the gun were largely mutually exclusive functions.
A dedicated loader for the 75 was provided. This crew member had one function, select, fuze, and load the 75 in action. He had no other weapon (like a machinegun) to operate. He was provided no vision devices or other means to assist the tank in locating targets etc when not engaged in loading.
Up in the turret there was a single gunner also. Describing this crewman as the commander is something of a misnomer. He was far more a observer for the 75mm and when necessary could defend the tank using the 47mm and machinegun in the turret. Since he was the loader, gunner and, observer he had far too much to do to be efficent at any one of those tasks.
Last, there was a dedicated radio operator who like the loader had a single task to perform.
In design, the Char B1 also had an additional weakness. Its hull was bolted, yes, bolted together. Not riveted, bolted. This is a poor choice. The bolts represent a real hazard if hit; far more so than rivets. The bolts could easily be sheared off and ricochet around the inside of the vehicle. Also, they could work loose imparing the sturcturial stability of the vehicle. The side mounted radiator was also a big weak point as was the side mounted entry door.
If anything, the only really cutting edge technology in the Char B1 was the steering system using a regenerative hydraulic system to allow very fine turning movements of the vehicle (necessary to aim the 75mm).
French doctrine saw the Char B1 being used in support of infantry in literally the way described earlier....as a mobile bunker firing away with its 75mm and machineguns on enemy strongpoints. If an enemy tank were to appear the 47 could handle the problem. Mobility need only be sufficent to keep up with the walking infantry and cross a shell torn battlefield.
On the whole, it was an archaic throwback to WW 1, not the forward looking tank say the Pz III was.

 

T.A

You hit the nail on the head there. The French and British had designs with specs that seemed impressive, but was crap as a fighting vehicle.
The Matilda tank had heavy armour, but a 2pdr gun that did not fire HE shells.

Both countries thought infantry tanks and cruiser tanks. Not until the war was at an end did Britain build their first main battle tank. There were many that plead the cause for such a design earlier. Think of a Centurion in late '43...

However the British did enjoy superior tanks for a limited time. The Sherman tank from Alamein through the desert until Tunis. I have read arguments that the Sherman tank put back plans for a Main Battle tank. Anybody read something similar?

 

The Germans recycled Renault turrets and put them on defensive bunkers on the Atlantic wall in Britanny. I know they captured a whole bunch of them near Vannes in June 1940. It is possible that they also used the chassis for transportation. source: Quiberon Museum (Lorient area)

 

Cheers T.A. for the Romanian H39 info, good stuff. I also agree quite strongly about the wierd brass block that controls the Char b's steering, German crews on Jersey cite it as superb but requiring extremely careful maintainence.

Has anyone read a decent book that covers Czech tank production & design in any depth beyond 'In Action' type studies? I'd very much like to know more.

I recently compiled this list of French conversions for A.N.Other forum from the very same Jentz & Doyle book Za refers to so thought I'd whack it in here as well as it seems relevant. (It's probably my favourite book, I know it has it's errors though so I'm ready to stand corrected, I lazily compiled the list while defending the Somua )

lorraine schlepper:
7.5cm Geschutzwagen sdkfz135 - 170 conversions.
15cm Geschutzwagen sdkfz135/1- 94 conversions.
10.5cm Geschutzwagen - 12 conversions.

Charb based:
Flammwagen B29(f) - 60 conversions.
10.5cm LeFH18/3 - 16 conversions.
(many served on Jersey in their original form).

Somua based:
S35 - served in anti-partisan duties and many secondary sectors, still 12 in service in december '44.

H38 based:
H38 itself, ditto above - 29 still in service on the date above,
7.5cm Pak40(sf) - 24 converted.
10.5cm LeFH18(sf) - 48 converted.

FCM36 based:
10.5cm LeFH16(sf) - 12 converted.
7.5cm Pak40(sf) - 10 converted.

R35 based:
R35 - many used in garrisons, also issued to PzJgr units asa command vehicles.
Marder 4.7cm PaK(t) auf r35 - 174 converted.

Renault ZT:
8cm Schwere Granatwerfer.

Renault UE - became a standard German army all purpose schlepper.

FT17 - Ubiquitous French garrison vehicle.

Halftracks:
Leichte schutzenpanzerwagen U304(f)
Mittlere Gepanzerter Zugkraftwagen S303(f)
Mittlere Schutenpanzerwagen S307(f)
Panzerspahwagen Panhard(f)
(many of the above were converted to carry their German armament in 1944.)

Cheers,
Adam.