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German manpower

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by GunSlinger86, May 10, 2017.

  1. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Germany was a country of roughly 60-70 million men in the late 1930s. Their armed forces had around 20 million men total throughout the war, including around 10 million men in at a single time. They put together over 3 million men in the Army just for Barbarossa while maintaining occupational forces in Western Europe and the action in North Africa, and having a separate Air Force and Navy, Albeit tiny.

    Where did they get all the manpower for that population? Were there ethnic Germans taken from other nations such as Austria, Czechoslovakia, and the satellites in Eastern and Central Europe? Were many of their men not of military age or not as military fit or acceptable as the standards in the West? Also, did they force a lot of conscription of non-Germans in occupied areas? At America's highest point they had 12 million men (8 million in the Army, 4 million divided between the other branches) in the whole military establishment, but they also kept around 10 million men out for manufacturing and had stricter entry standards.
     
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    JCM6395 and A-58 like this.
  3. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, 89,930,700 in 1939, in the Grossreich, including Austria and the Sudetenland. The Volksdeutsche of the Bohemian Protectorate, Poland, Alsace, and Lorraine, made up another 5 to 6 million. And that is total population, not just "men".

    No. Not even close. The putative peak strength of the Wehrmacht was 1 July 1943 when there were 10,132,898 including Waffen-SS. There were also about 100,000 foreign "volunteers" and 1.7-million civilians in the paramilitary Organization Todt, NSKK, and RAD, along with civilian warrants (beamte). Peak strength of the Feldheer (Field Army) was in 1943 and was 4.25 million. Peak strength of the Ersatzheer (Replacement Army) was 1944 and was 2.51 million. Peak Luftwaffe strength was 1942-1943 at 1.7 million. Peak Kreigsmarine strength was 810,000 in 1944. Peak strength of the Ostheer was 22 June 1941 and was 3,206,000...and was all downhill from there.

    That's about 10.5% of the population in uniform, which is pretty high. However, the U.S. put over 9.5% in uniform. The Soviets were probably the highest, but exact figures are difficult because of the population loss in the conquered areas...over 11% and possible close to 12%.

    After 12 March 1938 there was no Austria; it was part of the Grossreich.
    After 15 March 1939 there was no Czechoslovakia. From 30 September 1938 the Sudetenland was part of the Grossreich. On 14 March 1939, Slovakia seceded from Czechoslovakia and Germany invaded the next day. The Czech remnants became the Bohemian Protectorate.
    After October 1939 there was no Poland. All Poles of German descent were eventually required to register as Volksdeutsche and all were subject to conscription.
    After 25 June 1940, the French provinces of Alsace and Lorraine reverted to German rule and all were subject to conscription.

    Yes, the U.S. could have put at least 1.3-million more in uniform, but there were more deferments for health and other reasons. Plus, industry had a major claim on manpower. In Germany, at peak in 1943, 14.2% of the working population were in Group I industries and 23.4% were in the Wehrmacht. In the U.S. in the same year, there were 19.0 in Group I industries and 16.4% in the Armed Forces. That is a major reason for the German dependence initially on Gastarbeiter ("guest" workers) and later outright slave labor.
     
  4. harolds

    harolds Member

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    G.S.86,

    The answer to most of your questions in your second paragraph is: YES. They used all of those sources and then some. Some of the ethnic Germans or half-Germans from places such as Alsace-Lorraine and Poland were less-than-committed to the Nazi cause. In the second half of the war conscription was used in all areas of the Third Reich. Even the Waffen-SS used conscription later on. The one thing that kept the German forces going was the large-scale use of foreign (mostly slave) labor which freed up lots of young Germans for military service.

    Here are some other German innovations: The pooling of men with medical problems that normally would keep them out of service but when pooled together the Germans could treat their conditions together, (i.e. ear/nose/throat and stomach divisions). As the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine became smaller many of the younger men were transferred to the Heer. They fielded some "Luftwaffe Field Divisions" but these were mostly failures because while the men were excellent material, none of the officers or E.M. had any training or experience in ground combat and these units were usually butchered. Incredibly, the Heer put East Europeans, often Soviet POWs or Poles, in front-line units where, if they survived their first combat, usually deserted. They also used older men and Hitler Jugend in Volksturm units.
     
  5. Richard Pruitt

    Richard Pruitt New Member

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    A large portion of Poland was annexed by Germany. The Volksdeutsch inside were subject to the draft. A lot of Poles and Slavs were also drafted. After the Polish Army was released by the Soviets, their replacements came from Polish draftees POW's from the Wehrmacht. Volksdeutsche were found in Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and in former Yugoslavia regions. In Yugoslavia the Germans had Cossacks, ex-White Army refugees, French, and Greeks fighting Tito.

    There were at least two Slavic ethnic groups in Eastern Germany besides the Poles. They were drafted just like they were Germans.
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I seem to recall reading that the Germans had some pretty significant production problems because they didn't (at least at times) look at what the men they were drafting were doing in regards to industry. Early in the war the coal industry was hit pretty hard if my memory serves me.
     
  7. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    89 million after the addition of Austria, the Sudetenland, and the rest of Slovakia (Bohemia), and including Poland after it was conquered?

    When I said 20 million, I meant the total who served in the German military from 1939-1945, not peak strength at one point.
     
  8. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was clear? 89,930,700 in 1939, in the Grossreich, including Austria and the Sudetenland. The Volksdeutsche of the Bohemian Protectorate, Poland, Alsace, and Lorraine, made up another 5 to 6 million.

    Slovakia was not Bohemia. Bohemia and Moravia made up the Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren (Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia) under Nazi rule. Most of its population was Czech, with small German and Slovak minorities. Slovakia seceded from Czechoslovakia on 14 March 1944, the day before the Germans annexed what remained of the Czechosolovak state after Munich. Germany recognized the Slovak state and treated it as an ally. Occupied Poland was known as the Generalgouvernement.

    Possibly.
     
  9. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    So that leads to this: The populations of Czech and Slovak minorities under Nazi rule, did they get drafted as well to serve in the German military?
     
  10. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    That's what I said, but I didn't include Alsace and Lorraine. I understood.
     
  11. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    No. Non-Germans were not conscripted.
     
  12. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Even when they were running really low on manpower from 1943 on? But they forced certain minorities into service?
     
  13. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    The German Freiwillger (Volunteers) were sourced in a number of ways. The Waffen-SS actively recruited Walloons, Dutch, Danes, Scandinavians, French, Hungarians, Ukranians, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians, along with other minorities. The Spanish provided the Blau Division as a national volunteer contingent to fight the Bolsheviks (and eliminate various types Franco didn't want in Spain). The Heer recruited various volunteer units with more or less success, most of which were eventually transferred to the Waffen-SS.

    The Germans also made extensive use of Hilfwillger (HiWi), who were Soviet PoW released to fulfill service duties in rear areas, liberating "German" manpower for the front. By 1944, they comprised close to 10% of German divisional strength. HiWi were not organized or trained as combat personnel and often were not armed.

    The Germans also used Soviet PoW to form separate combat units as Osttruppen. They were typically organized by "nationality", i.e., Russian, Turkic (from Turkmenistan), North and South Caucasus, Georgian, and so on. By late 1943 some hundreds of battalions were formed with greater or lesser success, to avowedly fight the Soviets, when it was decided to ship them all to the West...not exactly the smartest move. By June 1944, the existing battalions were folded into existing "German" infantry regiments as a third or fourth battalion or were used in anti-partisan operations. All told, the Osttruppen and non-Waffen-SS volunteer combat units had a strength of about 650,000 at peak in 1944.
     
  14. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The Mufti also had Muslim Waffen-SS troops added into the other-than-German groups of Waffen-SS. The Vlasov group in Russia was also part of the Wehrmacht? Were the Waffen-SS units counted in the statistics of the Wehrmacht manpower, or was that a totally separate entity? Himmler intended it to be a private party Army not attached to the German military in any way, like that the cult that it was.
     
  15. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    You mean the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini? He had a propaganda role only. The only actual "Muslim" troops in the Wehrmacht were Bosniaks from the Balkans recruited into a few Heer units raised in the Balkans, Osttruppen of Muslim descent recruited from the Caucasus or the "Stans", or the Arabic "Oasien" company raised for service in North Africa.

    Vlassov's "army" nominally was two divisions and was a separate branch of the Osttruppen raised mostly for propaganda purposes.

    All such volunteers were counted as either foreign Freiwillger or as part of the Waffen-SS. The Waffen-SS was under the command of the Wehrmacht and Heer for operations and supply, but was administered by the SS. Yes, Wehrmacht strength totals usually include the Waffen-SS, but may not include the Totenkopfverbande or other parts of the Allgemeine-SS.
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    After the huge losses of two winters in the USSR the Germans put their effort to gun power because they could not get enough men whatever they did. Already summer 1942 almost all reserves and vehicles were given to AGS to operation Blue but still they were up to 50-60% of normal manpower. So they made mg42 etc to cover the deficit in unit fighting power.
     

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