Germans invited to D-day 60th.

On the evening news tonight is the story that the German leader has been invited to the 60th anniversary of the D-day landings. This is the first time such an invitation has been offered.

What do other posters think of this? Good or bad idea?

For me as this is the last 'big celebration' perhaps it is time that the modern German nation was officialy invited to take part in showing their respect for the efforts of the allied forces.

Perhaps others have a different view.

Regards Graham

 

Graham :

I would like to see the German leader stay home !

For me it would be more appropriate to send out letters to the German divisional verbande and see who would come to represent the veteran organizations that fought against the Allies in 44.

two cents.......

~E

 

Deffinatly

 

I must be honest. I would find it very difficulkt to come to terms with the Germans attending the 60th anniversary.

I have never forgiven them for murdering our men in cold blood, I always treated German prisoners with decency and I never mistreated any one.

I have tried to come to terms with the fact that so many long years have passed, surely then, it is time we forgave and forgot, Sadly I find this very hard to do. Indeed it may be that I shall never be able to do that completely.

For me it will not matter, for I am far to severely war injured to attend.

How in heavens name does one forgive such barberism? Of Orador sur glan, of Tulle, and a hundred other atrocities? I suppose that will happen when we old Veterans have departed this life.
Sapper

 

I personally would like to see the German veterans attended but perhaps in a ceremony of their ownrather than joining an Allied service. At the end of the day the decision if 'Germany' should attended should perhaps be left to the representatives of those who fought rather than politicians hijacking the proceedings to present a united europe and using the memorial for political reasons and thereby loosing the point of the ceremony. The people I have met in Normandy would seem against such a move. Perhaps remembering the war is too much for modern politicians hellbent on promoting a united europe.

But thats my view, as a xenophobic Englishman...

 

Very hard call this one guys.

I had my mind made up until Sapper's post.

I think it would be universally accepted that no extreme or SS units attend. But my 32yearoldIhaveneverbeenasoldiersoIwouldnotknowhowitwaslike view is : It's 60 years since, surely its time for both sides to come to terms with each other. Germany as a collective whole has suffered 2 generations of silence and shame on this (and so they should have) but isn't it time to try and heal wounds?

By continually excluding them are we indirectly persecuting new generations of Germans?

Surely by doing this we will start to create new resentments or perpetuate collective arrogance which began the wars of the last century.

Let them come if they want, we have rid the world of Nazis, lets celebrate this as people of the free world

 

I'm sure Germans who treated POWs decently but had their comrades murdered in cold blood might also feel the same. But like you, they were men doing an unpleasent job, the same as any ordinary decent soldier who plays by the rules.

 

And why no SS Brat, were they not soldiers to. By this time many members of the Wafferen SS were not the full blown Nazi volenteers people like to paint them as. many were dragged in from other branches. And what always bugs me is the way people view the wafferen SS as a bunch of hard core Nazis. I'm sure of all the 100,000s of men who joined, the reasons for joining were just as varied. To say you can't have the SS there, why not say you can't have Brit Copmmandos, or paras, or enginners.

 

These memorials should be to all those who lost there lives not used by politicians to further their own agendas. It would be good to see all nations paying their tributes side by side.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm

Ok leave the world leaders at home and invite all WW2 vets that can make it Normandy and revive unity if at all possible. German veterans that attended the Normandie celebrations back in 1994 on their own and there was nothing in the way of a unified vets organization represented. In fact they were really not asked to come but it was done on a volunteer basis. I can understand Sappers thoughts only as a young historian and not as an experienced WW 2 vet and this is something he was a part of and still lives with. But let's make it clear right now. No nation was clean during the war. Soldiers from all sides performed some pretty serious and hideous acts during this terrible conflict. The point is now that it is going to be 60 years after the fact and it's time if any time, to heal those wounds or at least some of them. And yes this is a tender subject..........and to forgive is something that has to be of a personal nature.

~E

 

Bish, good post, yes I acknowledge the SS were tarred with a great big dirty brush for the sins of some of its members but like it or not, people are always going to bear that grudge especially given the outcomes at the Nuremberg trials.

So unfortunately with the 60th around the corner, that opinion is not going to change anytime soon. I'd rather have some Germans turning up with the minimum of fuss rather than none at all!

By the way, if some members of, say, 2 para in WW2 were ever quilty of murdering 350 odd villagers by the torch, or were put in charge of an extermination camp, unfortunately, even though the other 90% of the SAS had nothing to do with it popular culture will always remember the SAS for that.

 

If other people can't handle it, tough. And one murder or 350, crimes are crimes. If i was a german vet of the regular Army and the SS vets were not allowed to come, i'd tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. I mean, come on, we are both English. You won't fined a meaner bunch of evil bastards anywhere, own history is hardly as clean as a whistle is it.

 

Actually I am Aussie. And we know you are mean bastards when you dropped us prisoners off in Paradise 200 years ago and let you good folk sail back to that cold island of yours

 

G'day

After 60 years it is time to move on, is my opinion. But not to forget. Oradeur sur Glane is never to be forgotten and Never forgiven. Fighting a war is different from commiting atrocities.It is fact that the SS did have a great share in this. The history of the SS is interesting let the SSmen tell their story only because of the fact that something like that may never happen again. To honour these people is sick. I think a representative of the German Goverment is more then enough.

Pop

 

So, how'd u get back in

 

Lets just say thank god for EU laws

 

Lets just say thank god for EU laws </font>[/QUOTE]I hate the EU

But seriously, and sorry for straying off topic. But there is a crime there. The fact that we nicked someone elses land to use as a prison.

[ 03. January 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Bish OBE ]

 

This is an important point. The D-Day commemoration is not for celebrating European unity. The D-Day commemoration is for remembering the Allied troops who fought and fell on D-Day.

It is the the views of the Allied veterans like Sapper which should be the deciding factor here. If Chirac and Schroeder want to use a Second World War anniversary to celebrate European unity, the sixtieth anniversary of the end of the war might make for a more appropriate anniversary.

Well said. German veterans should be free to hold remembrance ceremonies in Normandy, but the Allied remembrance is the Allied remembrance. It should not be tarnished by politics, and the views of the Allied veterans should be the deciding factor.

[ 04. January 2004, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: Ahab ]

 

Some examples from elsewhere. I know it´s a tough topic but can we afford not to go ahead?

Winter War, Finnish and Russian participants:

http://heninen.net/raatteentie/arkisto_e.htm

March 13, 2003. The first phase of the Winter War Memorial complex opened. Present at the ceremony were the Governor of the Oulu Province Eino Siuruainen, representatives of the Lutheran and Orthodox Churches of Finland, leaders of the Regional Kainuu Union, spokesmen of the military public of Finland, Finnish veterans of the Winter War, the leadership and citizen of the Suomussalmi commune, representatives of the Russian and Ukrainian Embassies, and the participants of the working group of the Winter War Monument project from both the Finnish and Russian sides were present at the ceremony.

On the foot of the Monument to the Finnish and Russian soldiers perished on this territory during the military campaign of 1939-1940. Wreathes were laid from the President of Finland, Russian and Ukrainian Embassies.

And BTW

I think Schröder visited Israel a couple of years ago...

 

Since 1994, German soldiers of the Eurokorps are participating on the military parade on Champs-Elysees on Bastille Day.

In 2003, the parade was led by a German general.

And I guess noone in Germany forgot the picture of Mitterand and Kohl holding hands in Verdun back in 1984, remembering the days when both's country's male youth were slaughtered away. As popular as Willy Brandt falling on his knees in Warsaw.

Cheers,