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Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Stugrad98, Feb 7, 2004.

  1. Stugrad98

    Stugrad98 recruit

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    Hi

    I am teaching a lesson on WWII and I would like to give my students examples where one factor in WWII-- either the bravery/number of soldiers or the tactics of leaders or technological superiority-- overcame deficiencies with the two other factors. For example:

    1) Key battles or operations where either the number of soldiers & the bravery of the individual soldiers, overcame tactical blunders and/or inferior weaponry/technology.

    2) Key battles or operations where a brilliant leader or tactician overcame a disadvantage in the number of troops and/or inferior weaponry.

    3) Key battles or operations where more sophisticated weaponry or technology overcame tactical blunders and/or a disadvantage in the number of troops.

    I would welcome examples involving any branch of the military and from key nations on either side of the conflict. Ideally, these should be battles/operations that were fundamental to understanding the war, but I'd welcome anything you can offer.

    Thanks in advance.
    Stu
     
  2. Buck Yaldy

    Buck Yaldy Member

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    Dear Stu,
    I used to be a teacher myself! I was recently reading Stephen Ambose's book To America.

    In chapter 8, pages 101-115, is a short summary of the War in the Pacific. It is excellent reading, short, sweet, and to the point.

    Ambrose specifically quotes himself, "I believed when I was young that America won the war because of its manufacturing capability, its tremendous delivery of shells and bullets to the battlefront. Now I've learned different. For example, take Okinawa..."

    Ambose quotes the amount of shells 19,000, artillery pieces 324, 18 war ships, 650 planes, 1,766,352 rounds fired, and 14 million tons of bombs.

    Now to get directly to your point and answer your question. Abrose says (besides the industrial war machine) it was the strength and spirit of the American soldier that over came all the odds like the Marines at Iwo Jima. Despite that impressive amount of firepower, the Marines had to take the island inch by inch.

    The students could compare and contrast the industrial war machine with the fighting spirit of the American soldier.

    You can also talk about the Normandy Invasion and possibly show some clips of Saving Private Ryan.

    As a student and a teacher it has been my experience to show graphic (not too gory) interpretations of what happened as if they were actually there.

    Good luck
     
  3. Christian Ankerstjerne

    Christian Ankerstjerne Member

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    An exellent eample of boldness would be Fritz Klingenberg (2. SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment Das Reich), who captured Belgrade with just ten men.
    Long story short, he was racing Panzer-Grenadier-Division Großdeutschland (one of, if not the, most elite unit of the German Army) to Belgrade, ended just across the river from Begrade, but with no bridges, and no bridgin engineers. He therefore took ten men or so in a small boat he found, and sailed across the river.
    He then marched up to the mayors office, and demamnded the surrender of the city, or he would call a Luftwaffe attack which would destroy the entire city (he was bluffing, though - he had no radio). The mayor surrendered the city to him...

    Another example would be the capture of the Belgium fortress Eben-Emael, with a garrison of 800 soldiers.
    80 German paratroopers landed, and captured the fortress (which had no real airdefense) with very few casualties.

    Another example - on 9 April 1940, during the German invasion of Denmark, the Germans lauched their first paratrooper assault ever on Masnedø fortress in Denmark. They were reluclant to reveal their tactic of airborne assaults, but considered the fortress too great a threat to the invasion to dare anything else.
    After they landed, they discovered that there were only two privates and a civilian caretaker manning the fortress - and the only weapons tey had was a 1899 Remington, but no ammunition. Talk about an anticlimax!

    You might also want to dig into the dramatic rescue of Mousolini by German paratroopers...
     
  4. Christian Ankerstjerne

    Christian Ankerstjerne Member

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    An exellent eample of boldness would be Fritz Klingenberg (2. SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment Das Reich), who captured Belgrade with just ten men.
    Long story short, he was racing Panzer-Grenadier-Division Großdeutschland (one of, if not the, most elite unit of the German Army) to Belgrade, ended just across the river from Begrade, but with no bridges, and no bridgin engineers. He therefore took ten men or so in a small boat he found, and sailed across the river.
    He then marched up to the mayors office, and demamnded the surrender of the city, or he would call a Luftwaffe attack which would destroy the entire city (he was bluffing, though - he had no radio). The mayor surrendered the city to him...

    Another example would be the capture of the Belgium fortress Eben-Emael, with a garrison of 800 soldiers.
    80 German paratroopers landed, and captured the fortress (which had no real airdefense) with very few casualties.

    Another example - on 9 April 1940, during the German invasion of Denmark, the Germans lauched their first paratrooper assault ever on Masnedø fortress in Denmark. They were reluclant to reveal their tactic of airborne assaults, but considered the fortress too great a threat to the invasion to dare anything else.
    After they landed, they discovered that there were only two privates and a civilian caretaker manning the fortress - and the only weapons tey had was a 1899 Remington, but no ammunition. Talk about an anticlimax!

    You might also want to dig into the dramatic rescue of Mousolini by German paratroopers...
     
  5. Carl G. E. von Mannerheim

    Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Ace

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    Hey Stu, many of the battles you seek can be found in the histories of the Russo-Finnish Winter war of 1939-40

    One battle that comes to mind is the battle of Suomussalmi (8-30 Dec, 1939) In which a numerically inferior Finnish force destroyed a Russian Division using superior tactics, anyways, give it a look, i think youll like what you find ;)

    CvM
     
  6. Carl G. E. von Mannerheim

    Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Ace

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    Hey Stu, many of the battles you seek can be found in the histories of the Russo-Finnish Winter war of 1939-40

    One battle that comes to mind is the battle of Suomussalmi (8-30 Dec, 1939) In which a numerically inferior Finnish force destroyed a Russian Division using superior tactics, anyways, give it a look, i think youll like what you find ;)

    CvM
     
  7. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    A good naval example of all three is Midway.

    1. In the first instance, both Japanese and US Naval pilots fought with extreme tenacity to attempt to accomplish their missions. Torpedo 8 (Cdr Waldron) went into attack the Japanese without fighter cover and with little hope of success on their own. Their sacrifice (the entire squadron was shot down) distracted the Japanese long enough for US dive bombers to arrive and finish 3 of 4 Japanese carriers.

    2. The US pilots who were given wrong coordinates for the Japanese and, who figured out on their own (Waldron in particular proved adept at this perceiving the initial mistake in location shortly after launch and flying almost straight to the true Japanese location) where the Japanese really were. They then took the chance that their fuel would hold out until they could deliver their strike and return to their carriers safely. Some didn't when their fuel did run out before returning.
    There was also the US use of code breaking that led to their having a substancial advantage in intelligence on their enemy.

    3. In this instance, the US had a great advantage. The Japanese had an inferior carrier operating doctrine that cost them the battle. The US carrier doctrine, while far from perfect, was much better. US steaming formations had been developed to take carriers and air attacks into account while the Japanese still steamed in essentially WW I formations that had existed since the time of sail.
    There were small things like the US having TBS (Talk Between Ships) a UHF radio system (having essentially a line of sight range). The Japanese had to maintain radio silence with their medium frequency radios while the US could freely talk among their ships without fear of having their transmissions intercepted.
    US operating doctrines like carrier controlled interception using radar and controllers on their carriers gave them an incredible advantage in intercepting Japanese strikes and in most cases causing massive casualities among the attacking aircraft that the Japanese could not sustain. Midway was just one battle in a string of carrier actions early war where this was true.
    The US, likewise had developed better aerial fighting tactics that took into account the strengths of their aircraft and the weaknesses of the Japanese. Things like the Thach Weave gave the USN a substancial advantage (John Thach with just 3 F4F's held off over a dozen Zeros shooting down several for almost 30 minutes trying to get back to his carrier at Midway. It was his tactical innovation that permitted his survival). This occured in a setting where the USN had a inferiority in aircraft performance and numbers. The superiority in tactics was substancial enough to turn the tide of battle in the US' favor at Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons and, Santa Cruz and, changed the entire course of the Pacific War.
     

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