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Holocaust-US did not do enough

Discussion in 'Concentration, Death Camps and Crimes Against Huma' started by bronk7, May 8, 2020.

  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Well, it is true the Bomber Command had planned to bomb the major German cities to kingdom come to end the war fast.
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    They tried that...They were no closer in 1944, than they were in 1940.
     
  3. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    Really? In your quote he is comparing writing a book to fighting a battle.
     
  4. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ....sorry, I just saw this post...let me check...I have a bunch of my own MH mags, but also get them from the library ...I forget if I have that one or if it is from the library....
     
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  5. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..I don't have it anymore--that was from the library ..I should've known by the date anyway
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Well, nice try anyway

    As part of a sustained campaign of strategic bombing during World War II, the attack during the last week of July 1943, code named Operation Gomorrah, created one of the largest firestorms raised by the Royal Air Force and United States Army Air Forces in World War II,[2] killing an estimated 58,000 civilians and wounding 180,000 more in Hamburg, and virtually destroying most of the city.[3] Before the development of the firestorm in Hamburg, there had been no rain for some time and everything was very dry.[4] The unusually warm weather and good conditions meant that the bombing was highly concentrated around the intended targets and also created a vortex and whirling updraft of super-heated air which created a 460 meter high tornado of fire.

    The operation was conducted by RAF Bomber Command (including RCAF and RAAF and Polish Squadrons) and the USAAF Eighth Air Force.

    Operation Gomorrah killed 42,600 people, left 37,000 wounded and caused some one million German civilians to flee the city.[3] The city's labour force was reduced by ten percent.

    Bombing of Hamburg in World War II - Wikipedia

    Speer afterwards:

    I have said, in those days, in a meeting of the Air Ministry, that if the Allied would repeat this success on four or five other German towns, then we would collapse.” – Albert Speer – The Secret War.“
     
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  7. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..I would say they were definitely closer........it wasn't going to win the war, but it got them closer - per Kai's post
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Closer by late '44, but not early '44. Early '44 still saw German production numbers rising. But, then again, we had boots on the ground in France and were inching up Italy(which saw a sizable increase in production, since the German takeover).
     
  9. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..point is, the bombing did help.....especially lowering the morale of just about everyone who wasn't stupid....by morale, I mean most people knowing they were not going to win the war/etc [ hahahhah ]
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yes...

    Well we did that to Japan several times over.
    Japanese Cities
    And it still took 2 atomic bombs and a Russian invasion to induce them to surrender.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    They knew that by 1943. Yet, the Germans did not surrender in 1943. That was the Italians, probably the least bombed of all the Axis major players.

    Ironic isn't it. The least bombed surrenders first.
     
  12. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..are you blind? I said it wasn't going to win the war---but it certainly helped to end it faster than if there wasn't the massive bombing = for the war against Germany
     
  13. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    It ended the war faster by a matter of months...This was not what the British had in mind, nor hoped for, when first the plan was first conceived.
     
  14. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    thank you....exactly..so they were closer to the end than if they hadn't of used massive bombing
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Not by early '44, but by late '44.

    By late '44, they hardly had a Luftwaffe.
     
  16. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    Given that the bombing had a major impact on Germany's allocation of resources, so that, for example, the German Admiralty archives show Hitler admitting in 1943 that steel was being allocated away from U boat building programs to the defence of the cities this is slightly simplistic.
     
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  17. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Germany had less operational U-Boats in 1942, yet these fewer boats sank roughly 3 times more ships in 1942, than the more numerous U-Boats did in 1943.

    More U-Boats in 1943 did not equal more sinkings as opposed to 1942. Thus, they are redirecting resources from a weapons program that is experiencing greatly diminished returns and shows little sign of improving.
     
  18. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The enigma programs both in the US and UK were getting faster and also the u-boat positions found quicker. The methods to destroy U-boats also were developing better. ' The good ole days for the German subs were over.'
     
  19. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Operation Gomorrah killed as Many people as one A-bomb practically...
     
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  20. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..they had thousand plane/etc raids long before that...and many other hundreds of bomber raids..... so I would say with much certainty, that this was not only a factor in the general population's morale and foretelling of their future, it also reinforced the resistance to hitler--not only the German resistance, but all over the continent = thus helping to end the war sooner

    ...first was the disaster at Stalingrad----then Hamburg--a 1-2 punch to morale/etc = many Germans know what's up--especially the resistance --so they want to get rid of hitler SOONER--and THAT shortened the war--with hitler taking more control over operations/etc
    I thought Hamburg bombing was July 1943

    ..you think Covid 19 deaths and the Beirut Explosion are MAJOR news and destruction!!!!!??????
    Hamburg made Beirut look like nothing = MAJOR impact on morale/etc.

    ...emboldening and strengthening the will of the resistance/partisans/etc [and the Allies-civilians ] and lowering the will and dedication of the most ardent believers--including the Italians----which surrendered in 1943--greatly shortening the war
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020

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