If the Western Allies had an equivalent of the T34

Yep I fully agree KBO - some Sherman specs would shame any T-34, and yet you only ever read glowing German reports/praise for the T-34 and never the Sherman- weird huh?

Is it true that the T-34 was still manufactured in some countries until relatively recently?

 

It wasnt manufactured "recently", but it was used until some time in the 80's (I dont remember by wich country, probably cuba )

KBO

 

Welcome to the forum, Kilgore.

A lot of the T-34s early troubles were indeed rectified, how quickly is another matter. But in certain respects it still was inferiour to the Sherman. The Sherman had better guns, the 75mm being better than the 76.2mm and the 76.2mm better than the 85mm ( at least as an AT gun ), and the fire control system was superiour to the T-34. It was also at least as good as, and usually better than the T-34 in all matters of reliability and durability.

I think most people around here would think twice about declaring either the T-34 or the Sherman as superiour to the other. They both have their pros and cons. But I personally would regard both the T-34 and the Sherman as above average, at least in some of their versions.

I don´t think the T-34 was less prone to blow up after being hit, and, as you pointed out yourself, the problem with the Shermans ammunition storage was sorted out.

I´m inclined to agree with you on this one. The T-34 was probably better suited to harsh winter conditions than the Sherman was. But, as I said, they both had their pros and cons.

 

Not really. The T-34 was a nasty surprise to the Germans when they first encountered it. The surprise had faded when the Sherman entered the stage, at a point where the Germans also were better equipped to face it. There also were a lot more T-34s on the Eastern Front than Shermans.

 

Yes but, still even in 44 the Germans didnt report having any problems against the latter Shermans either
Offcourse i could aslo then qoute that they didnt report having trouble with the latter T-34's

Fact is the first Shermans were about equal to the first T-34's, but after that technically the Sherman's went marginally to being ahead of the T-34's in many aspects.

KBO

 

The sherman did have some trouble with its rubber track that tended to slip in icy conditions or burn in superhot tempereature, but the Sherman was adored by its russian crews for its ability to move very silently unlike the T34.

 

Well, they were sort of beaten back on all fronts with surprising speed; I don't think that at the time of the appearance of the new Shermans (late July 1944 in the West) the Germans felt the need to distinguish which tank they were having trouble with...

Like Skua said, reports of trouble with the Sherman are lacking because by the time it arrived, many weapons had been introduced or were being developed in the German army that were designed specifically to fight T34s and other 'new generation' tanks. The Sherman was another one of these, and the weapons to fight it were on their way.

By the time the later Shermans and T34s arrived the Allies were the reactionary party; they were now adapting their once-great new tanks to the new German standards of super heavy armor and guns. It was not the Germans having more trouble, but rather the Allies having less trouble.

 

Urban legend busting time:

The Sherman had to endure a wider range of terrains and Climates during WWII than the T-34 did. This rumor about the Sherman being more reliable than the T-34 souly because it was "pampered" on easy terain is false. Not only did Shermans serve with the Russians where they were loved, but wartime testing of the two tanks in Aberdeen (both tanks being in the same enviroment) proved that the Sherman will run for significantly longer than the T-34.

 

Two answers that come to mind: the Germans captured significant numbers of T34s and had an opportunity to test entire platoons of them tod estruction; in fact the Vlasov army was equipped with captred Soviet T-34s..So, familiarity would be one answer. . On the other hand, they captured relatively few Shermans....

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On a different note, not long ago a friend showed me the garage in Linden (New Jersey) where Walter Christie once worked..and we both observed how different things might have been is the burocrats at the US Army had been less inflexible and Christie not the pain in the butt that he was....He simply did not know the meaning of "good public relations"..

 

Thats a good point Scaramouche.

I have seen many picutres of caputred T-34s being pressed into German service (after a new paint job lol). Although you mentioned relatively few Shermans were taken by the Germans, does anyone know of examples where the Germans used such captured Allied tanks in a similar fashion?

 

Yes, a prominent one is during the Ardennes offensive. The germans had a special unit that used captured american equipment.

 

But the unit (150th SS Panzer Brigade) was largely equipped with Panthers and even some StuGIIIs with some plates added to make them look like Allied tanks and of course, with huge Allied stars painted on them. This last little detail was a bit of a miss - the Americans had already stopped using the white stars since they presented too nice a target for enemy AT guns.

 

Haha! I didnt know that. Bu didnt they use also some shermans?

 

The problem is, I just don't know. I've never seen them on pictures and the only reference I have is Skorzeny saying there was way too little American / Allied material available to effectively decieve the Allies.

 

Ok Roel, ill dig some info on them and let you know. I remember reading somewhere however that they did use some Shermans.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Panzer-Brigade 150 (which was not a Waffen-SS unit) had five Pz.Kpfw.Panther modified to resemble M10s and five Sturmgeschütz IIIs, with armour plates welded over the tracks. They were organized in two different units. All ten vehicles were painted in US colours.

The unit did have two Shermans, but one was not operational and the other didn't feature on the strength report on the night before the attack.

 

Guess that helps us out ay Roel

Thanks Chritian!

 

Somewhere in the back of my mind there's a statement made by Skorzenny to the effect that while trying to organize units to infiltrate the US lines during the Ardennes, he had trouble securing even a few Jeeps, since the limited amounts available were itoo highly prized by those who captured them to let them go....They did capture some M4 Shermans-and assigned them a "Foreign Equipment" number-the one depicted is an M-4 748 (e) (E="English ) "-but did they emploey them operationally? that is another matter....

 

Thanks Christian.

Why is the unit always referred to as the 150th SS panzer Brigade if it wasn't an SS unit? It was commanded by Skorzeny, who was SS, and fell under the supreme command of 1st SS Panzer Corps, 6th Panzer Army (SS-Obergruppenführer Sepp Dietrich).