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Discussion in 'Modelling' started by Tiger(P), Jun 13, 2020.

  1. Tiger(P)

    Tiger(P) New Member

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    Hello all, looking for some information in regards to the Germans first encounter with the T34.
    My reason for asking is because I plan on doing a huge Dio. A T34/76/40 model being driven back to a railway head on the back of a Famo tank transporter. German troops crawling all over it, whilst it is stopped. Passing the other way will be p iv and P ii. Obviously crews looking at the T34 rather worriedly.
    So which German Panzer division first encountered the T34, was Guderian involved at all I know he made comments about the T34.
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    I really think it is such irony that the Soviet military at first turned it down. But the persistence of the designer made it come to fruition. Too bad he ended up dying from pneumonia after a proving trial for Stalin. Who knows what other vehicles he could have designed the man was brilliant in tank design. What a complete surprise the KVs and34s and even after the Germans had sent evaluation teams to Russia. The Soviets were good at hiding them but the soviets were totally convinced the Germans were hiding bigger more advanced tanks as well. Was the 75 pak 40 able to knock out those tanks. I haven't seen pics of Germans putting one on a recovery vehicle but there are lots of pics showing German soldiers climbing all over captured tanks. Even interesting pics of captured tanks reworked for use in the German army. Might have to do some captured Soviet tanks the Germans did some interesting modifications.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    the T-34 and the KV designs, which were previously unknown, took the Germans by surprise.[4] Both types were encountered on the second day of the invasion – 23 June 1941.[5]

    Half a dozen anti-tank guns fire shells at him [a T-34], which sound like a drumroll. But he drives staunchly through our line like an impregnable prehistoric monster... It is remarkable that lieutenant Steup's tank made hits on a T-34, once at about 20 meters and four times at 50 meters, with Panzergranate 40 (caliber 5 cm), without any noticeable effect.

    German encounter of Soviet T-34 and KV tanks - Wikipedia

    The KV tanks were usually assigned to the same units as the more numerous T-34 and, although they were much larger, their overall performance was quite similar; many sources discuss the impact of both types. The most common model of KV was the KV-1.

    It was in the Battle of Raseiniai where German forces encountered the Soviet KV for the first time,

    Battle of Raseiniai - Wikipedia

    The 6th Panzer Division seems to be the answer.
    The Soviet 2nd Tank Division from the 3rd Mechanized Corps attacked and overran elements of the German 6th Panzer Division near Skaudvilė on 23 June.

    Skaudvilė ([​IMG]pronunciation (help·info), Samogitian: Skaudvėlė, German: Skaudwill, Polish: Skaudwile) is a city in the Tauragė district municipality of Lithuania. It is located 26 km (16 mi) north-east of Tauragė.

    Guderian was in the AGC section, that is midlle Army Group.

    Just a hunch but perhaps General Rauss was the first to encounter the t-34´s. That is Army Group North towards Leningrad.

    Erhard Raus (8 January 1889 – 3 April 1956) was a general in the Wehrmacht of Nazi Germany during World War II. He commanded the 6th Panzer Division during the early years of the war on the Eastern Front before taking army and army group commands.

    Erhard Raus - Wikipedia

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    But why didn't the Germans know about the kV and 34s, thought they had the best intelligence network. Plus didn't Hitler send guys to evaluate the Russian army. Like how could they miss something so crucial, and big especially the kV thing's as big as an elephant. Thanks for your time and information
     
  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I guess the Germans thought after Winter War they had mostly old and easy-to-kill tanks. I only know the Soviets visited Germany before Barbarossa and were keen to know about German tanks and believed after what the Germans showed ( up to PzIV short-barrel ) that the Germans were hiding the bigger ones. The mass production in the USSR for the T-34 and Klims was just speeding up and at the time of Barbarossa the Red Army had some 1,000 for the Army use. Have not read though about the Red Army showing their new better tanks to the German Army visitors which might indicate they suspected something is going on behind thei back?? At least the T-34 and Klims were a big surprise to Wehrmacht.
     
  6. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Yeah read that too the Russians were convinced the Germans were hiding bigger tanks because they were already working on the kvs but I'm still surprised they had poor intelligence for the Russians. I heard that Hitler was convinced that the Russians were weak and not able to fight effectively because of the winter war. The Russians did seem unable to conduct effective combat operations, lack of resupply, poor intelligence and combat coordination. Stalin had himself to blame you can't dispose of 100,000 of your officer core and think things are gonna honky dory. Poor training poor leadership and lack of resupply caused large failure. I thought the part the call the sausage war or battle of the sausage was ridiculous. Why didn't they have adequate supplies was Stalin as stupid and thought they would run over the Finns in a few weeks.
     
  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Hitler´s view was clear: " Kick the door in and the rotten roof collapses in ". He was sure the Soviet resistance would be weak.

    In Winter War the Soviets attacked due to snow along the roads, and the Finns cut the attacking armies and following reserves to small pockets and destroyed these one by one. If you destroy the convoy´s first and last vehicle the convoy is not moving anywhere. There were also many tactical flaws like that the tanks may not leave the roads to forest or fields etc.

    Here is a photo what it looks like when two Soviet divisions are cut to smaller pockets:


    [​IMG]
     

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