Is the me262 that great?

I keep finding it strange that so many historian said that me2622 in mass could have change the air war to germany favor...how is this possible? the allies would still have a larger numbers of fighters and the allies can soon deeloped jet aircraft themselves if there was really a need to. Another thing is that me262 had a unreliable engines of 48 hours, also me262 is designed to take out bombers than dogfighting with fighters and control the air. The most the me262 could do was to lessen the damage done by allies bombings and hold the war for another few years, but they could not have won the war for the axis.

 

Yes, the old 'the Me262 would have been a war-winning weapon'. :angry:
Rubbish, as you correctly point out.

In my mind, there was only 1 actual piece of hardware that could ever *potentially* recieve the title of 'it could have won the war for Germany', and it ain't an aeroplane.

(It is the Walther-type U-boat, first propsed back in 1934, IIRC. If they had taken the gamble and developed it prior to WW2, there is a good chance that the Germans could have walloped us in the Atlantic before the Americans got fully involved - any discussion on this please go to the 'The War at Sea' topics!)

btw - I hope me262 doesn't find this topic title offensive!

 

:cry: :cry: , you kill my feelings :cry: :cry:

 

Wouldn't the me262 have been able to utilize hit-and-run tactics to the fullest a la the Americans in the Pacific? The way I see it, its high damage-per-second (4X30mm cannons) and lightning fast speed would have allowed it to maximize the use of such tactics to make mincemeat out of conventional propeller-driven aircraft.

If you took an F-15 armed only with its Vulcan cannon and pitted it against a Spitfire you would get a roughly similar result, although I do admit that such an example is a little overblown.

The only way for the Allies to effectively counter the me262 would have been to use jet fighters of their own.

 

... or to continually raid their bases, and thus make them relatively inneffective that way.

All the arguments for the 'zoom & boom' tactics etc does assume that the Germans cured the problems of engine reliability, which (given their shortage of strategic materials needed) was not going to happen anytime soon...

 

If the me262 had been developed earlier it could have been a war-winner, as then its engines wouldnt be as faulty and fragile, and their would be plenty of me262's to go around.

How are they going to raid them if they can't get past defending me262's, wich will shoot the living hell out of any bomber in no-time ? Those four 30mm guns were lethal !

Agreed. Hitler was to slow to realise the effectiveness of the me262, and delayed its production enough for resources to be scarse, and the engines suffered from it. If he had realised it sooner it could have been a war-winner in my opinion.

Regards, KBO.

 

But it couldn't stop the Russian onslaught, or the Allied landings, and certainly whatever kill ratio it had it couldn't kill all that Allied production made...

 

Had it been set for production the first time Hitler was proposed this (in 43 i believe), it would have given the German TOTAL air-superiority !

Nothing could touch the me262, it could make B&Z tactics all day long, and it would be devastating for Allied air-power. Infact the me262 was also quite a T&B fighter, with its full-wing-slats it could make some really tight turns, its roll rate wasnt all bad either, although it wasnt all good either ! . Not even the U.S. P-80 could match it !.

Im convinced that if Hitler had taken it into production by 43, then it could have proven a war-winner.

Regards, KBO.

 

Nope - no matter how soon development started after the inital idea, it would not be complete & fully functioning by 1944. This has been proved repeatedly on www.tgplanes.com


As to raiding - you only need fighter-bombers. And how can the me-262's defend if they are blown up on the ground or shot down in their take-off or landing pattern?

Even if the me262 completely replaced all other German planes in production in 1944 (with the BIG assumption that they managed to find enough materials to produce the engine turbine blades) they would not have 'won the war'. The me262 is an interceptor, pure & simple. A very good interecptor, when the engines work, but still an interceptor. How could it defeat swarms of Allied fighters & fighter-bombers?
How could it prevent D-Day, or the Soviet advance?

 

Had Hitler liked the Idea from the start then it could have been set into production earlier.

If they couldnt turn with them they would simply Boom 'n' Zoom them all day long, until nothing was left. =Total air-superiorty in the end.

KBO

 

Yes, with engines that did not work. :roll:

Except that any time they try and land or take off, a section of P-51s shoots the wings off them...

 

Btw look at this http://www.stormbirds.com/project/

Ooh goody, another WW2 plane-design flown again for the first time since the war. 8)

KBO

 

Ricky then the engines would have worked ! It was because of the weak poor quality metal used in 45 that they didnt work then, nothing else !

You make it sound so easely, but it wasnt ! There wasnt going to be a P-51 waiting for every me262 in any case. And if Hitler had excepted the plans in 43, then there probably wouldnt even be any P-51's left !

KBO

 

The engines were not reliable in 1943!
The germans basically used techniques when producing the turbine blades that were too advanced for their industry (hollow fan blades, etc). Plus the lack of resources - still a problem in 1943...

http://www.tgplanes.com/Public/snitz/to ... rms=me,262

 

But surely the resource problem was to a lesser extend in 43 than in 44-45.

KBO

 

The Me 262 would ( or could ) have been in production earlier if the engines had been ready earlier. Not that the engines were ready at the time the Me 262 finally entered production, they still had their teething troubles ( and not only because of the materials used ). There were plenty of Me 262s to go around as it was btw, it was pilots and fuel that was in shortage.

One of the few things you can´t blame Hitler for is how the Me 262 turned out. Hitler´s decisions were based on the information he got from Milch and his followers. And with the benefit of hindsight it seems as Hitler/Milch were right, not only in delaying production but in their decision to use the Me 262 as a fighter bomber as well.

 

Better as a Fighter-bomber ? From what I've read and heard it was a mistake not making it a Fighter earlier.

KBO

 

Like Skua pointed out it wasn't exactly the production of aircraft that ended the effectiveness of the Luftwaffe, it was a shortage in pilots and especially fuel. Had these things been in abundance the Me262 could have had a greater impact, but the events show that the P51 could handle the Me262 perfectly well during its "slower" stages of flight and could probably dogfight it down while it was preoccupied with destroying bombers (at which it was quite splendid).

 

Weren't TA152's deployed to protect the Me262's in take off and landings against Allied fighter attacks - admitedly the numbers deployed by the Allies in 1944 was more than could be deployed earlier but....

 

they use the dora nine to provide protection to the me 262 landing or taking off