just learned a trick to tell fake cloth items!

most of you probably know this i didnt a small portable black light can tell fake patches etc because synthetic materials fluoresce rayon, polyester etc. cotton, silk etc doesnt im glad im picking up some tricks and ill learn more when my book comes in the mail detecting the fakes any other tricks you guys know PLEASE! let me know as i will you when i learn them thanks. jason

 

I use an ultra violet lamp.

 

your welcome slipdigit, and a uv lamp works too? nice! thank you skipper!

 

I believe black light and UV light are different names for the same thing.

 

oh ok thx never heard it called that

 

didn't know that! i wonder if there is a flashlight bulb i could use.
thanks!

 

i dont want to spam but i saw this on the big auction site that begins with e and it explains it in more detail im not saying buy one there! any black light or uv must do it im psyched i know a trick to tell fakes!

 

These lights are used by many collectors to help detect reproduction synthetic materials used in cloth items.
Most threads made before 1945-50 are natural fibers such as cotton, silk, etc which generally do not fluoresce.
Synthetic fibers- rayon, polyester, etc. made since WW2 all fluoresce.
This lantern helps you to detect reproduced military uniforms,patches and etc.
You can even tell if old fabric has been repaired as the new thread will fluoresce. Beware though that washing products also fluoresce so this is just one way to help verifiy age .

 

Hate to burst anyones hopes in using black lighting to tell fakes. It's all negated if a person washed the item being black-lighted if they used modern detergent.

I cleaned a very dirty and very smelly pair of Smoke/Nebelwerfer Troops Enlistedmans Shoulderboards I got from a guy in Las Vegas. These things you could smell through the package they were mailed in they smelled THAT bad. I recieved a notice from the Post Office that they at first were not going to deliver it-but since they all knew me at that post office-they figured it had something to do with militaria. This pair of boards were cut from teh mans tunic as you can see where the bayonet sliced through the material.

Anyway, as I couldn't display these with my other cloth-for fear of the smell and gritty dirt that had been embedded in them all these years-I did the best thing I could do-and that was to clean them. It too four days of soaking them all-day and all-night long. I also hand-scrubbed them using Tide laundry detergent. Slowly the chemicals-smoke-dirt and such came off. However, I had to change the water every few hours when soaking because you could see the chemicals seeping out of these boards-to the top surface of the water-akin to gasoline spilled into water.

As I normally keep everything I ever buy-I long before then knew the ""rules"" of how to clean items and what to use and what not to use-because of the blacklight thing. I know my boards are the real deal because of many things-the smell. the chemicals of course more than proved it to me beyond any doubt-but aos you can tell by feel-look and smell (in this case) smell is not for the "Battlefield odor" but for the meterial itself.

As I intend to keep this pair of boards for as long as I live-I don't care if they fail the blacklight test or not? If anyone ever asks? ill tell tem I did clean them and what I used-which was Tide Powdered Laundry Soap. I don't think their originality could be questione anyway-because part of a corroded shoulderboard aluminum button-is still seen on both boards. Also, I have never not once-ever seen a pair of boards that are repops-slashed like they were cut off a tunic with a bayonet.

Anyway, my whole point to this rant is-is that you cannot rely on blacklighting to tell if something is real or not period.

Hope this helps someone out there?

 

Of course some smart guys know the trick and will try to thwart this , therefore I agree tha tit is not 100% reliable Carl. However it works fine with most items you would find for instance on a flea market. For those interested in these lamps you can get them in stamp collector shops.

 

Hi Skipper, I don't believe in Jewelers scales either ;-)) Those too have been useless on certain makes of Qualification and Assault Badges. I know a guy who together-we found out that almost 1/2 of his collection was full of fakes. He solely relied on scales and such instead of educating himself with good Reference books.

Also, books like: Detecting the Fakes-are almost 100% useless. That book in particular-because of the chep quality of repo stuff the Author used as references for his book. A blind Ape could spot all the fakes in his book the first time thumbing through his book. ;-))

PS I sent you a PM about something important.

 

got the pm Carl.

Something useful is the list of fake numbers on Koppelschlösser which are available on the internet. Same for French adrian insignia's: here are a few examples/sources

Buckle and Belt characteristics, originals & fakes
Spot the Fake - WWII German Army Belt Buckles

Faux attributs de casque Adrian

 

this is a good thread

 

Hi Skipper and Cheers. Thanks especially for the Buckle link. That's an area I never actively got into collectin and have owned only one buckle-which was actuall a Finnish WWII version of the German buckle-had no insignia and was pebbeled on the front surface just like German Penal Battalion buckles are. Anyway, I only have basic experiance with German Buckles. However, I know a great guy from Ireland or Canada? who has one hell of a buckle collection-and I think he has about 130 buckles now? not sure?

 

I have heard that if you want to find out if an german officer cap is fake or not, you eigther use a UV lamp or you can burn a thread from it, if it burns fast it's a fake.

 

can anyone tell me some better books for identifying fake ww2 militaria than detecting the fakes?

 

Books are very useful, but as Carl demonstrated, there are some awful attempts out there.

One of the best things about this forum, is that with the amount of knowledgeable people it has, you can pretty much find out if anything is a fake here!

 

This is true, and it's a pretty reliable test. Old thread burns quickly and leaves ash, whereas modern synthetic fakes burn and ball up into plasticky bobbles.

But you have to be careful at firstly removing a thread without damaging the item, and then not setting fire to the whole thing. Don't go lighting things up in antique shops!

 

Is there not a problem with this synthetic/natural fiber testing, in that germany used so many synthetic materials throughout the war?
Even excluding the 'natural' pulp synthetics there do appear to have been many more 'plastic' fibres like Rayon used throughout the war, even mixed in with the cotton pulps.

Not my area, just curious.

~A