Medical Records: Another Brick Wall

Oh, my! I spoke with my local VA yesterday. They have my father in the system. However...they have no record of a hospitalization or injury of any kind for my father. But she said it's odd that it does show him as if he was admitted or something. She thought that if it wasn't during the war, it must have been since then, like he must have been to our local VA here for something, like been admitted into the hospital. That NEVER happened. My father is very against going to ANY VA no matter what. And he has insurance and no reason to go there!

So, I have one more thing to try-just waiting for a returned call- and then I'm going to have to just let this go and move on to other things. I told Dad about this new brick wall (or is it one continuous and really long one?) and he said, well, I told you...no records were kept. He's told me this over and over that records were not kept. I just keep thinking that maybe somebody...like some little nurse who didn't know any better, jotted down something. I guess the blanks in his records are what has to tell the story.

Anyway-thank you to everyone who has helped to point me in the right direction. The hospital records are just a part of what's missing. Onward-Karen

 

What unit is listed in Box #6 of your father's Discharge Documents? What dates are listed in Box #36 of your father's Discharge Documents? Has your father shared with you the numerical designation of the unit he was assigned to while overseas during WW 2? If so, would you be so kind as to share that fact?

Richard V. Horrell

 

Karen--I'm sorry, but I can't buy the story (or the excuse by the authorities) that no records were kept. Except for the men missing in action or gone AWOL, the military keeps good records where every man is located, all the time. If your father went to the hospital while on active duty, they have a record of when, where, how long and what for--probably even his vitals while he was there. If his records have been declassified as you previously indicated he should be able to get them. But if you want to give up--well, that's up to you. Too bad.

 

Richard: This is not a DD214. I'm not sure if that's why the boxes you asked for don't really seem relevant. It's his discharge paper and I am told is equivalent to the DD214 that was used later. Box 6 says, "Honorable." Box 36 is the name and address of his most recent employer. What were you looking for?

He does not remember a number and says he was not told one. From the research I have done, it appears he was trained completely differently and handled differently than others who did this and even within his own unit.

An Admiral Turner is mentioned in his letters, if that helps.

Buten42--Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. I am, of course, frustrated. My father and I have spent countless hours talking about this over the years. It is a tightrope I walk though. I do believe that talking about it and figuring it out is a good thing in the long run. In the short run, he starts having quite severe PTSD symptoms. I am not giving up at all, but it's all about balance. I have a call in to the actual hospital my father was at during the war (or where the records are now anyway). In the meantime, there are other issues, like what submarine he was on. I do agree with you that it's hard to believe that there isn't a record of all of this somewhere. So far though, it has been like finding a needle in the ocean.

I do not know anything about his records being classified or declassified other than then fact that the F.B.I. showed up at my parents house five years or so after the war to let him know he was now released to talk about what he did.

~Karen

 

DD Form 214, Discharge Papers and Separation Documents (DD-214, DD214
As shown near the bottom of this webpage, DD214 was not used until Jan. 1, 1950.
Prior to that other form numbers were used. It would give us some serious insight if we could see what his papers say.
I apologize for getting a bit short Karen, I surely don't know all your circumstances. I know they have the information, I know your father has the right to have it, and I know they are giving you the runaround. I have a daughter with service related PTSD and I can understand what you are going through. Personally, it would make me twice as determined to get the records. Dave

 

Don't worry about it. I"m sorry about your daughter. I hope she has been treated well. I've come to believe that it's important to deal with things right away. It certainly doesn't get any easier later on.

Yeah, I do have his discharge papers. Just don't know exactly what Richard was looking for. But I assume that the name and address of his last employer is not what he was thinking would be in box #36.

In the meantime, here's what I do see on the form:

Under, "Service (vessels and stationed served on)" it says, USNTS Farragut, Idaho/Waipio Amphibious Operating Base (comm teams)/ Flag Detachment AdComPhibsPac/PSC USNB Bremerton, Washington

Under "remarks" it says, Asiatic Pacific Area Campaign Medal/Workd War II Victory Medal/American Area Campaign Medal

Under "Ratings Held" it says, AS S2c S1c(RM) RM3c

Under "Foreign Service" the "yes" box is marked.

Does that help any?

I do believe that the records are out there someplace. I just don't understand why it's so danged hard to get records for an 89-year old. But there is also clearly a block of time that has no explanation in his records. Thank you for your help. ~Karen

 

Navy records are a little more difficult to follow than Army because they lack the dates-
You probably know this, but he was first sent to the United States Naval Training Station in Farragut, Idaho. This is a submarine training base on Lake Pend Oreille. From there he was sent to Waipio Amphibious Base in Oahu, Hawaii training in communications (he is classified as Radioman), from there he was sent to the American Defense Command/ Pacific in the Phillipines in the flag detachment (I'm unfamiliar with this). From there he was sent to the USNB in Bremerton, WA--probably for discharge.
He progressed through the grades --Apprentice Seaman, Seaman 2nd class, Seaman 1st Class, and Radioman 3rd Class. This doesn't show what vessel he was assigned to while in the Pacific--he may not have been assigned to a vessel and served on a land base.
Not much information here--you need more records.

 

Thank you. How did you get the Phillipines out of that? ~K

 

Thanks Lou for the correction, I couldn't find much when I Googled AdComPhibs- what I did get indicated that this command was based in the Phillipines.
AdComPhibs - Google Search

Karen, if you can ever get your father's service figured out it will make a terrific read.
By the way, how can I get a copy of your book?

 

Apparently PSC = Personnel Separation Center, which would tie in with the discharge.

also;

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/Transport/transport-1.html

section 113

Flag detachment would appear just to indicate the administrative staff of the commander of the AdComPhibsPac. associated responsibilities include some 'special' forces type operations -

from what i understood of the document it was Hawaii rather than Philippines, but not 100% sure.

might be a lead

 

I'm thinking it was all at Waipio, Hawaii

 

Yes. It was Hawaii. My father can explain what flag detachment is in detail. He can explain it all, actually. My book will come out in the fall of 2011. I can let you know more when we get closer. The book is my memoir. It is not a history book, though WWII and naval intelligence buffs seem to be very interested in it. It is written from my point of view (obviously--memoir) and is about my experiences in trying to help my father with symptoms of PTSD that came up more than 50-years after the war. As I tried to help him, it became apparent that it would help him to be able to see in writing what he did during the war, in his records. His records hint at it, for sure. But I was hoping for a play-by-play. A chronological record that reads like a book would be nice...lol. It just doesn't seem to work that way with the military.

Just so you know, I have done a LOT of research on all of this. I wouldn't come here expecting you all to do my research for me. I've just come to the end of what I know to do. That said, I have learned from this forum that we all think a little differently and know different things, so the information and links you share are often ones I haven't tried yet. So, thank you! I will go look at them now.

One more question; is there wording I could use to look up this--My father's team was sent in prior to initial invasions with their communications gear, to listen for intelligence. Is there a military term for that?

Thanks again, All! ~Karen

 

Spartanroller- Thanks for the link. Definitely a lead.

Flag Detachment - I'll have to look through my notes. But Dad did say that it was the offices where all the top brass were. But he said that most of the time, they weren't in their offices anyway. And when he did see them, he said he was always surprised to be walking down the same hall as Admirals Halsey or Nimitz. But he tried to act as if it wasn't a big deal. ~K

 

You're welcome

There are several relevant terms;

forward(fwd) or signals(sig/sigs/sigint) or electronic (elint) intelligence(int/intel) reconnaissance(recon) or gathering

sigint and elint may possibly be post war terms, couldn't confirm that certainly either way.

this link may give you some terminology;

The Role of Intelligence in War

special operations (spec ops) may be a term to look for also.

also pre-invasion, covert recon and all the combinations. Advance parties.

Hope it helps

 

LRusso- Great link. I sometimes forget to look for information under Marines instead of Navy. Dad was told that they would be "attached to the 5th Marines" when they went to Okinawa. He was Navy. Thanks for the link! ~K

 

The following may provide some background and lists some sources that may be worth following up on:
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...-a-bomb-decision/csi9810001.html#rFOOTNOTE-12

Chapter 6- World War II Intelligence in the Field
(from this one it looks like Comint may be the operative term.)

COMINT [Communications Intelligence] Contributions [to] Submarine Warfare in WW II