"Interesting" and difficult case.... BBC NEWS | UK | MP backing for 'Holocaust denier' BBC NEWS | UK | Holocaust key to extradition case
I don't really see it as difficult at all. The man's a fool, but he's broken no laws in this country, the perceived 'offence' wasn't commited in Germany, therefore; no case for extradition. 'Thin end of the wedge' thinking seems important in legal matters, for example if this one goes through then are all those of us that have bought, or continue to buy, pieces of militaria with swastikas on going to suddenly be subject to a ridiculous eu wide ban as each country's laws begin to leech into every others? Britain's been ridiculously weak in rolling over & allowing recent extraditions to the US, I hope she can stand up for her own laws this time. Cheers, Adam.
The problem that I see is what to do with people who publicly claim there was no holocaust. If we do not do anything, then some people might think that there was no holocaust because otherwise they would act.
The only thing I can see is to slap them down good & hard with the facts not for there benefit as we all know these people will never believe the truth, even if you slapped them in the face with it. It's more of a benefit to educate others and show the world that there are fools out there who will never except the truth. As for the case at hand, boot him out I say, we don't need his kind here.
Where is actually Australia's commitment or responsibility in this? After all the guy is an Australian citizen - as such I can't really follow the rightfullness on behalf of Germany alone demanding his extradition. As sad as it is, but if Australia does not provide the laws against a Holocaust denier in their own country - Germany has no jurisdiction to do anything about this nut unless he would be caught actively propagating this in Germany, which was and is the case. I wonder if the German government which get's so busy about him has already revoked his government pension as a former civil servant - propably not Regards Kruska
But in so far as I am aware, he has not broken any British laws and I am not too clear as to how he has broken German law. Furthermore even where say somebody in Germany would walk down the street holding up a big sign with a Swastika on it with the headline "the Fuhrer was right to kill the Jews" that would clearly be against German law, there is a problem when one starts criminalizing people's opinions no matter how nasty or distastefull or even dangerous they are, in that given peoples' love of conspiracy theories, if you slap our fictional sign carrying Nazi in jail, somebody is going to think he was put in jail to stop him telling the truth. Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer
I would agree that best thing for such people is to stridently refute their arguments. Furthermore if he is a foreign national he has no inherent right to be in the United Kingdom and the Government should have just refused him entry to the United Kingdom and left it at that. Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer
Well, you bet he already broke German law by simply denying the holocaust. He would face a court sentence of paying a fine of about 2000-3000 Euro, and if he was known to be a Nazi he could face a prison term of up to 5 years. What the newspaper article does not mention is the reason stated by the EU court (Besides Germany's request for extradition upon his arrest) for issuing the EU arrest warrant in the first place, upon which Dr. Toben was arrested at Heathrow airport by British police. Obviously he has continued to spread his holocaust denials even after he was sentenced to 10 month imprisonment in 1999 in Germany. Therefore a new arrest warrent was issued and as such Britain is obliged according to the 2003 signed treaty to extradite him. Regards Kruska
Just for my edification and not wanting to drag the thread onto another tangent, please fill me in on this, Adam. In other words, y'all just let Adam answer the question and keep the thread on track, please. We can discuss trans-Atlantic extraditions in another thread, if it is needed.
Primarily I was thinking of the Natwest bankers Jeff, a symptom of a new extradition policy that bent 100% to the will of the US and disregarded that there are already perfectly satisfactory systems for prosecuting British Citizens on British soil. An abuse of the claimed aim of the policy to fight terrorism and an abrogation of responsibility by a weakly sycophantic government & subdued judiciary. Cheers, Adam.
Agreed nothing to do with terrorism, whilst at the same time this sort of stuff goes on no problem. YouTube - UK Islamic School Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer
These EU arrest warrants are worrying, especially as they can simply be applied for without the pesky interference of courts, proof and most concerning of all, no illegal action in the nation of arrest. Although Toben is a grade "A" shit, there's a danger that in pursuing the unspeakable encourages a poor form of justice because of someone's poor reputation or infamy. Thin end of the wedge and all that.
Let those people aome and goa as they please while they spew their message of hatred, and when they grab your a$$ next time you'll say they are in their rights. Remember Pastor Martin Niemöller's words: When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
