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NVA tanks today

Discussion in 'Post-World War 2 Armour' started by Che_Guevara, May 4, 2007.

  1. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    I´ve read that the NVA captured many many American tanks of the ARVN at the end of war, are they still in service and how many and which did they captured ?

    Hehe, the only pic i found was this one, but it shows the ARVN examin´ a captured NVA-tank^^

    [​IMG]

    Regards,
    Che.
     
  2. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    That appears to be a Russian T-34 chassis.
    Any American tanks captured from the South Vietnamese would likely be M-48s or perhaps M-60s. There couldn't be huge numbers of them since the US only supplied the South with about 350 tanks.
     
  3. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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    ARVN got mostly M-41 Walker Bulldogs. There were also some M-24's and maybe a few of the M-46/47's.

    US tanks in VN were M-48's and M-551's.
     
  4. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    Must have been some M-60s in Vietnam, huh? Or maybe not... this is an m-48 for sure. Turns out I was mistaking M-48s for M-60s for some time now. They look pretty similar...but upper track wheels are different, I see.
    Probably lots of other differences I never noticed.
    This is not my picture.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    At least one of the Chaffees from TAPI is still preserved at Dien Bien Phu, I know that's not exactly what you're after though...

    http://www.hksw.org/Dien%20Bien%20Phu.htm

    This shows an image of Bazailles, one of TAPI's Chaffees, if you're interested in Vietnam I can only recommend Martin Windrow's Last Valley as a very good read of the battle, politics and cicrcumstances leading to the siege of and involving the eventual defeat at Dien Bien Phu and which finally lead to the US involvement in that theatre.
     
  6. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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    Grieg;
    Easy mistake. The M-48 and M-60 do resemble each other in many ways.

    The easy ways to tell them apart is that the M-48 has a turret that is shaped like a turtle shell, while the M-60's turret is pointed towards the front and boxed at the rear. The M-48 has a pointed bow and the M-60 has a straight one.
     
  7. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    Sry, I don´t have relevant informatons atm only some additional pix of captured tanks by the NVA. But there was a crappy book, called "Apokalypse Vietnam", which I´ve read just for fun in the book store in Braunschweig. The author betitled the USS New Jersey as "the sistership of the Maddox, which was involved in the Tonking incident" :grin: , however the most important thin is that I´ve seen pictures of s street with lots of destroyed and damged trucks and tanks, so I was inspired to open this thread ^^ The author said that the US-Army had supplied the ARVN with mass of weopons, rifles, tanks, ac and so on, so I wonder, if they were still in use, but considering the pix I guess most of ´em are on display, perhaps caused by the lack of spare parts.

    edit*



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    BTW did the ANZAC troops lost any tank in combat and the fate of ´em (captured, display toady ) ?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Centurion Mk 5/1 of C squadron 1st Armoured Regiment, Royal Australian Armoured Corps, scrub bashing during Operation Overlord. This proved to be one of the most successful of tank/ infantry co-operations when the tanks of C Squadron gave decisive fire support to infantry of 3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment and APCs of 3rd Cavalry Regiment against a strongly entrenched NVA battalion north of the province.

    Regards,
    Che.
     
  8. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    Che:
    I have additional details--somewhere--on that NVA T-34 AA mount. I believe it was captured by ARVN Rangers later in the war.

    ARVN Armor consisted of mostly M-41 Walker Bulldogs, and M-113 ACAVs and a few M-48s. We may have left some M-882? tank-retrievers after the fall. I believe they were based on the M-60 chassis. I wonder what happened to all those tracked ONTOS with 6 recoilless-rifles. I saw one of these at the Patton Museum... and only a "mother" could love that beast.
    As a side-note, I've seen M-36 Jackson, M5 light, LVT4 with a 40mm bofors and M-36 Weasels with recoiless-rifles in use post-WW2 in French Indo-China... aka Vietnam. Lots of military surplus ended up in French-hands.

    Tim
     
  9. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    Hi Tim,

    would be great to hear more about that AA T-34, it looks very interessting, it seems that it mounted a double 40 mm Flak. The Marines deactivated the Ontos from Vietnam in May 1969. A few of the Ontos were left in Vietnam and turned over to an Army Light Infantry Brigade near Tam KY. The Army ran them until they ran out of replacement parts. They then made them into fixed bunkers. The remainder of the machines in Vietnam were loaded into ships in May of 1969 for return to the US. The crews were reassigned to various Marine Infantry Battalions.
    Once the machines were returned to the US, their top hulls were cut off and many of the chassis were sold for construction equipment or given to local governmental agencies for rescue work.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    www.waffenhq.de/panzer/m50ontos.htm

    Regards,
    Che.
     
  10. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    I've already added it to my list of converted models I would like to make :wink:
     
  11. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    Guys:
    Let me see what I can discover about that T-34 in AA-guise. There was a piece on it in Military Modeler Magazine some years ago.
    I'll check at lunch...

    Tim
     
  12. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    Che and Ricky:
    Some background on the T-34 AA-mounting in NVA markings...
    It was a modified Russian T-34 mounting a Chinese type63 dual 37mm antiiarcraft gun. Notice also that the bow-mount MG has been removed and the port covered-over with a circular plug.
    -----------------------------
    "A crudely formed armored turret was fabricated, then bolted to the gun-mount so that it traversed with the weapon. This modified turret provided protection for the gun-crew and apparently assisted in stabilizing the dual weapons.
    No modifications were done to the basic T-34 chassis except for the addition of four large metal ammunition storage containers mounted two on each side of the hull, and the ladder-like gun travel lock on the rear deck.
    The 37mm gun system retained it's original hand-cranked traverse and elevation mechanism and could elevate -5 degrees to +85 degrees. Electrical power for the sights came from the drivers compartment to the turret via cable."
    ---from Military Modeler/April '1987

    My understanding is that this vehicle is on display at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. It was referred to as a "Bac Viet Phong Knong Thiep Giap" by the troops who used it to guard the Ho Chi Minh Trail in the early 1970s.

    I've also seen an artists' rendering of an NVA BTR 50P with an AA gun-turret on the rear-deck... in addition to a mounted .51 cal MG over the front hull compartment. Text states it was captured at My Chanh in May of '73. The only marking is the number "609" on each side of the crew compartment.

    Tim
     
  13. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    Hi Tim,

    do you know, if some of them are still in use today by the NVA and did they give some of the captured armor to the UdSSR for investigation ?
    Thx for the informations about the T 34 AA, nice read, however I would prefer the Duster :wink: As JC already said the ARVN used some M-24 found this pic

    [​IMG]



    A stationary relic from another war guarded the northern approach to Tan An bridge. This US manufactured M-24 Chaffee light tank was, undoubtedly, left behind by the French after they withdrew their forces in 1956. The M-24 had been introduced to the Allies in Europe during the winter of 1944. Unlike most US tanks of the period, it utilized a Christie designed torsion bar suspension that the German tank designers favored.

    Regards,
    Che.
     
  14. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    Che:
    When the NVA overran South Vietnam, they found themselves in possession of lots of ex-USA/ARVN armor.
    M-24 Chaffees were used early-on in ARVN service.
    I think most ARVN outfits had transitioned to M-41 Walker Bulldogs by the mid-late 60s. By the time the USA was leaving S. Vietnam, they were turning over M-48 Pattons to the South Vietnamese armor forces.
    Make no mistake, the ARVN tankers were well-trained and could/would fight. In one engagement--1972-- they destroyed an entire column of T-54/55s without a single loss. They were also instrumental at perfecting tactics using the M-113 in the ACAV-variant.
    I daresay anything of interest--armor-wise--was shipped to Russia or China for further study after the fall of Saigon. Not sure if the M-48 really was that much of an "unknown" to the Communist-bloc of the time.

    Yes, the M-42A1 "Duster" was a unique vehicle. One of the first"tanks" I ever built was a 1/35 scale Duster kit back in the early 60s.
    Another "odd" sp-gun was the M56 Scorpion. Homely little thing, with no real protection for the crew. (More like a scaled-down Marder of WW2 days.) Only one Company (D Company 173rd Airborne Brigade) used the M56 in Vietnam. It was small and light to be "air-droppable" if I recall.

    Tim
     

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