Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Prokhorovka....a draw ?

Discussion in 'Tank Warfare of World War 2' started by jeaguer, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    via TanksinWW2
    As part of operation Citadel ,on the southern side of the pincer
    a strong assembly of german armor composed mostly of the II SS corps
    got counterattacked by rotmistrov 5th tank army .
    for one day on a battlefield barely 10 Km sqare it was the most
    concentrated engagement of armor to this day ,
    for the three follwing days , both side fought , but with none of the
    ferocity of the 12th , then mr hitler called the whole thing off .

    Erickson in "the road to Berlin" said that it was a draw with
    "300 german taks destroyed , including 70 tigers "
    rodmistrov admitting more than half of his tank army destroyed

    Ripley in steel storm insist than the SS losses were light "70 to 80 tanks"
    obergruppenfuhrer hausser , commading the SS corps and distrustful
    of tall claims by "liebstandarte" is alledged to have visited the battlefield
    and toted the wrecks with chalk to make sure .
    rodmistrov 5th tank army would have lost 650 to 700 tanks out of 850
    wich is indeed "more than half "

    I respect both writers ,one a great historian the other a great journalist

    what is one to think ??
     
  2. Christian Ankerstjerne

    Christian Ankerstjerne Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,801
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    The Russian claims are rediculous. The claims during Unternehmen Zitadelle are higher than the number of tanks actually engaged. The number of claimed Tigers is extremely inflated as well - the actual number of destroyed Tigers was 13, out of 147.

    German claims, if we are to follow the trend from the Western Front, inflated by 'only' 100 %.
     
  3. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    via TanksinWW2
    I suspect the stats on principle ,
    rotmistrov tank army licked it's wounds for a long time after that ,
    by russian standards ,no unit were pulled out for refit at less than 70% minimum
    while II SS corps when on to fight in other fronts ,only totenkopf and das
    reich actually liebstandarte being send to italy , absolutely ordered by
    hitler to leave their tanks to the other two sisters divisions .
    it would suggest losses of one third ~~about
    if the german losses were " slight " why did they stopped their
    progression for three days ,the SS were not known for arse farting around
    and a broken enemy would have been a magnet .
     
  4. Mutant Poodle

    Mutant Poodle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,480
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Jupiter's Fourth Moon.
    via TanksinWW2
    A broken enemy maybe, probably, however, if you do not have the fuel to maintain the offensive not the reserves to continue supporting the attrition loses then no general oficer worth their salt would advance. Right?
     
  5. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    via TanksinWW2
    yep , that was a hard battle all right and there is no question than the
    german infantry had its ears rigging , that was why the panzer were
    commited , to punch a hole in the defensive russian lines , and why
    the 5thTA jumped on their bones , to stop them . So what give ?
    the russian got blasted , but the german do not take the town wich was
    their objective .
    there still should have been enough petrol , the whole show was a set
    piece ,prepared for months.
    if anyone can suggest a good strategic history from the german point of
    view ( in english ) I'd be much obliged .
     

Share This Page