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Rat lines created to help escaping Nazi War Criminals by the Catholic Church

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Von Ritter, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Von Ritter

    Von Ritter New Member

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    Does anyone have any information concerning the Rat Line escape route used by Nazi War Criminals?
     
  2. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    There was a very good BBC radio series (R4) on this about a year or so ago don't know if its still available through Sounds
     
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  4. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Interestingly, I just saw a re-run of a documentary on this subject not too long ago. It seems a German cardinal in the Vatican was a nazi and used the Church to smuggle SS notables and others running from a noose, to countries such as Argentina, Syria and Spain. Other organizations, such as the one run by Skorzeny, helped then get established once they got to those countries. New identities, jobs, etc. were all available to these fugitives.
     
  5. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Bishop Alois Karl Hudal. He was an Austrian Catholic and was Rector of a Seminary for German Priests.
     
  7. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..I forgot which one I read --either Hunting Evil or Takao's Nazis On the Run
    ...I thought I read about a New York or Boston [? one of those big eastern cities ] priest/bishop that helped the nazis escape ......it was a very good book on the subject ..talks a lot about the catholic help
    ..a very interesting subject
     
  8. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    The RC church was/is a huge organisation riven with internal politics and 'left' and 'right' wings. Some were violently opposed to the Fascists, others supported them whilst many just kept their heads down and prayed it would all be over soon.
    I was dragged up CoI but nevertheless would not dream of painting all of the RC church with the same brush. There are many examples of members risking and even giving their lives to oppose the tyranny whilst there were some bigots that supported it.
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Some say the Vatican was involved. do not know how true this is.

    Skorzeny according to his memoirs was in the prison camp all the time. He was amused as the US troops were alarmed that Skorzeny and several SS men were going to free the POW camp. He never left the POW camp and was later in the military court.

    Somebody got his watch from Hitler as well the letter if I recall correctly to give free hands to act in Hungary late 1944. Hmmm. Theyr are somewhere with somebody.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Well, there was Romanian Orthodox Archbishop Valerian Trifa, but he had emigrated to the US after the war - He was in the Romanian Iron Guard. There was also Father Charles Coughlin, with strong anti-Semitic views, and had a very large following for his radio program. However, both were based in the mid-west, and neither helped Nazis escape.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Skorzeny was a self aggrandizing braggert...I would not give much weight to what he says without triple-checking his stories.
     
  12. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    .....IIRC, the name started with an R.....maybe it was another book, but I ''strongly'' remember there was an American priest that helped them
     
  13. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    yes here it is....not R but S--Spellman
    ''''. By far the most influential figure of the NCWC was the redoubtable archbishop of New York, Cardinal Francis Spellman'''''
    bold mine
    Spellman was in the book I read on the subject
    How the Catholic Church Sheltered Nazi War Criminals

    Bishop of Boston
    https://www.wikizero.com/en/Francis_Spellman
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  14. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    here, Spellman and the ratlines:
    THE VATICAN CONSPIRACY

    ..Catholic priest/Boston/New York/involved in the ratlines
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  15. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Skorzeny was in a prison camp for a while. They couldn't pin any war crimes on him but kept him anyway. Finally, he escaped and got away. He ended up in Argentina and then Spain. He ran a "reception" organization for nazis on the run. I believe it was called "Die Spinne" It helped accused war criminals by finding jobs, places to hide, false documents, etc.
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Ok. I thought reading his view but now it is worthless. NeXT WHO goes for the Vatican part? Anyone?
     
  17. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Your view on The Vatican? I never was too sure. Or hoped it was at all sure.
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    No, the author does not provide any evidence or cite any sources proving his claim.

    He gives us
    And
    What was that line from A Few Good Men? "It doesn't matter what I believe, only what I can prove." or something to that effect. Despite "some historians" believing, we are given no quotations or sources concerning this. If true, there should have been several for this book.
    The same goes for "It has been written". Despite having been written, there are no quotations or sources...Maybe it was not written that well, if at all.

    Was Spellman a great fundraiser, most certainly, it is probably the most important facet of his upward climb in the Catholic Church. His earning potential was first noticed in the early 30s.

    It is also true that Spellman was close to the Pope, as they had been close for some time, and that this friendship facilitated Spellman's rise within the Church. However, no connection is made between Spellman and the Nazis.

    The passage concerning Spellman leaves out the fact that Spellman was the top Vicar in the US Army and spent a good deal of time visiting US troops abroad. As a matter of fact, in makes no mention of his US military service at all.

    It also leaves out that Spellman was instrumental in helping to bring down the anti-Semitic Coughlin.

    I doubt any will dispute the fact that most of the money coming into the Catholic Church during WW2 was American, as we were the only major nation that relatively unaffected by the war.

    Most oddly though...The one connection that might have tied Spellman to the Nazis, Spellman's rabid anti-communism, is also not mentioned.

    The author really could have done a much better job here. As no of this information is new, and has been around for awhile.
     
  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    It's not worthless, it just needs to be thoroughly fact-checked.

    Read what Skorzeny has to say about Gran Sasso, and the research the raid.
    It's as if there were 2 different raids.
     
  20. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ...you really nitpick...but now you are denying the undeniable --like OJ...Spellman is in the book and the $$$$ were used for the ratline--plain and simple
    AND he was in New York, not the Midwest
     

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