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Russia - September 1941, Time Magazine

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe October 1939 to February 1943' started by LRusso216, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    While perusing Time Magazine archives, I came across this article on the German invasion of Russia during September 1941. The introduction is an interesting geographical comparison.

    Philadelphia had fallen, Independence Hall and all. Industrial New England had been captured; Rhode Island with its naval base at Newport was isolated, though not invaded; the industrial areas of New Jersey and Pennsylvania were cut off from each other and threatened by a new enemy advance. New York and Boston were besieged. Columns were poised along the upper Potomac, threatening Washington. It looked as if the enemy might reach the Mississippi before winter.
    This, with obvious geographical transpositions, was the Russian position early this week, after the new German burst in the Ukraine.
     
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  2. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Thanks for posting this, Lou. Interesting perspective. It really helps to explain just the situation that the USSR was in, with her economic districts cut off and having lost nearly all its industrial structure.

    On a side note, it does kind of lessen the argument that America was isolationist before the war - by applying a situation happening on the other side of the world to the US, and publishing it in a nationally-distributed magazine. It seems to attempt to get the Americans to sympathize with the Soviets as well, another strike at isolationism.
     
  3. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    I'm not so sure about your thoughts on American isolationism. It had been pretty strong through the 30s, but by this time in 1941, I think the tide had turned against them. There remained, however, a fairly powerful isolationist sentiment. By the time Germany invaded the Soviet Union, most of those voices had been quieted.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I've been arguing that isolationism was never a majority opinion on the US.

    APRIL 17 1939
    EUROPEAN WAR
    Interviewing Date 3/23-28/39
    Survey #152-A Question #1a
    Do you believe there will be a war between any of the big European countries this year?
    Yes................................ 51%
    No................................49
    Interviewing Date 3/23-28/39
    Survey #152-A Question #1b
    If there is such a war, do you think the United States will be drawn into it?
    Yes................................ 58%
    No...............................42
     
  5. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    OP, you may well be right, but that poll doesn't seem to measure whether the majority of Americans wanted the US to get involved, only that they thought we would. I'm not sure that isolationists were ever in a majority, but their beliefs were strident enough to outweigh their numbers.
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    That's just one set of numbers. I have ALL of the Gallup Polls for 1939-1945 here. I'm sorting out the "important" ones from the ones about Gone With The Wind. Should have that up RSN.
     
  7. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    I have a feeling that both positions expressed have validity, the isolationists might have been in the minority numerically, but they were very vocal and could put a bunch of celebrities on the podium. Lindbergh, et.al., and they also had powerful media backing in Henry Luce of the Time-Life magazine group, W.R.Hearst on the west coast, and of course McCormick in Chicago. All staunch Republicans and FDR haters.

    The impression may have been that they were "stronger" than they really were, but when asked directly by pollsters the American public wasn't as "sympathetic" to their viewpoint.
     
  8. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    I think the issue was always inflated to a size far greater than it was. When you look at US policy decisions and the public reactions - like the Trade Embargo on Japan, Lend-Lease Act, etc - it is clear that by this point the isolationist attitudes were minimal at the time.

    Now, here's my problem with the issue. Some TV shows and a few books (up here in the wintery north anyway) like to claim how Pearl Harbor "snapped" the Americans out of the isolationist attitude - when items like the previously-mentioned policy items and media like the magazine article are contrary to this. Bottom line, I think isolationism was a very small movement that reached its peak in the 1920s/early 1930s. Yes, the isolationists had some "loud mouth celebrities" bantering on about it, but certainly it was almost non-existent by the 1940s when looking at the public as a whole. I think I should have made my point a bit clearer in my other post (maybe say "the myth of isolationism).
     
  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Good summary! The leaders of the isolationists in Congress were the most troublesome, and had the most problems.
     
  10. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    While you might be right in that point of view being too widespread, both in the common memory and re-enforced by history books in general. There is pretty good evidence that it most certainly "snapped" America out of its divided views and approaches to the Axis powers, and it most certainly "snapped" the Lindberghs, Wheelers, and that Catholic priest (forget how to spell his name) away from the isolationist position.
     
  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Father Coughlin?

    I have a picture of the staff of the America First Committee headquarters staffers taking down isolationist posters on Dec. 11th, 1941, as they closed up shop.
     
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  12. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    Right, that's the fella, just had a brain-cramp while I was typing! I have seen that picture too, and didn't Lindbergh try to re-join the Army to go to war? As I understand it FDR was instumental in keeping the Colonel on the outside looking in as far as the USAAF was concerned.

    He did manage to get a civilian advisors job with Lockheed, and go to the PTO where he showed the pilots how to 'stretch' the range of their P-38s. I know he was credited with at least a few combat missions, where he was actively engaged by the Japanese. I have heard differing accounts of his actions, either he did shoot down at least one plane, or he didn't shoot down any. I don't much care one way or the other as per Col. Lindbergh's actions, but his range extending advice must certainly been of great value in the Yamamoto ambushing.
     
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Lindbergh has a bit more credibility on intervention than Jenny McCarthy has on vaccinations, but not a lot more, IMHO.
     
  14. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Dr. Seuss ripped them a new one as well.
     
  16. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    I've seen the book Dr. Seuss Goes to War. Pretty good collection of his political cartoons. You're right. He really does a number on the isolationist sentiment.
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Would it surprise you at all to learn I have a copy? :D
     
  18. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Ummm. No. In fact, I would be shocked if you didn't.
     
  19. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    That collection of political cartoons from Dr. Seuss is also available online at:

    Untitled Document

    Funny stuff.
     
  20. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Thanks Clint. I had misplaced that link. It's now safely in my better organized bookmarks.:rolleyes:
     

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