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Russian Navy "On Verge of Collapse"

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by GRW, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    But what response does the U.S. And NATO have against the SS-N-22 not to mention the newer versions of the "sunburn" plus China's?

    http://www.militaryaerospace.com/blogs/mil-aero-blog/2013/07/how-vulnerable-are-u-s-navy-vessels-to-advanced-anti-ship-cruise-missiles.html
     
  2. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Not at all.

    The figure of 5 billion USD can be questioned in the context you claim.

    The source of the funding. It was accepted that large sums of funding came from an exiled Russian oligarch. That is far from proof that the US government was directly involved, as you state.

    Once again, proof that money was directly funded from the US government to Neo Nazis has not been forthcoming.

    Money given directly in the form of USaid to the Ukraine has not gone to sponsor neo-nazis, but instead gone to, amongst other things

    • HIV/AIDS prevention programme
    • Municipal Heating reform
    • FAIR justice project (national wide judicial test selection)
    Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people.

    http://www.usaid.gov/where-we-work/europe-and-eurasia/ukraine


    You are well aware of the difficulty of proving a negative, so it is upon you to prove the positive, you who make the accusation. Otherwise you have a very twisted view of justice: Guilty until proven innocent.
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Why should I even try? That's not what this thread or this discussion are about. Then of course there's the problem that even if I had provided such a source it wouldn't be worth anything because there is no way to prove such a conjecture. The point is that I have seen nothing to indicate that the US violated national or international laws or treaties in their actions in regards to the Ukraine. Furthermore neither their intent nor the effect was to destabilize the Ukraine but to strengthen its democratic structure. Russia was the one that violated international laws, national laws, and treaties to destabilize the Ukraine and it was clearly their intent to do so.

    ??? What is your point here?


    And your point is? This doesn't seem related to the topic of this thread or any of the conversations to date.
     
  4. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Not exactly on topic, but some of these aircraft seem to be in need of repairs / maintenance / replacement...

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-bomber-crashes-in-6th-military-aircraft-loss-in-one-month/525584.html

    A Russian Tu-95 “Bear” strategic bomber crashed during routine training in Russia's Far East on Tuesday, news agency RIA Novosti reported, marking the second loss of a Tu-95 bomber and the sixth loss of a Russian military aircraft in a little over a month.

    Russia's aging aircraft fleet has been called into heavy service over the past 18 months as relations with the West deteriorated over the crisis in Ukraine. The NATO military alliance has said it intercepted 400 Russian aircraft near its borders last year — a 50 percent increase over 2013.

    The increased flight rate is taking a toll on Russia's fleets of MiG-29, Su-24 and Su-34 fighter jets, as well as the Tu-95 long-range bombers, all of which have experienced accidents since the beginning of June.

    The Defense Ministry said the crew in Tuesday's crash managed to bail out of the aircraft before it went down, and that it was not loaded with weapons. The Tu-95 is capable of carrying nuclear bombs or cruise missiles.

    An unidentified Defense Ministry source told RIA Novosti that the cause of the accident was “most likely a technical failure.” The last Tu-95 crash in early June was the result of an engine fire during takeoff.


    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-mig-29-fighter-jets-grounded-after-yet-another-crash/524992.html

    Russia grounded its fleet of more than 200 MiG-29 fighter jets on Friday after one crashed during a routine training exercise in the southern Krasnodar region, news agency Interfax reported.
    The incident marks the fourth crash of a Russian military plane over the past month and the fourth loss of a MiG-29 in the past year.


    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-grounds-2nd-fighter-jet-fleet-amid-string-of-catastrophes/525155.html

    Russia's Defense Ministry has grounded its fleet of Su-24 fighter-bombers after one crashed Monday in the latest in a string of military aviation accidents.

    The Su-24 aircraft crashed outside of Khabarovsk in Russia's Far East while trying to take off during training exercises, news agency Interfax cited a Defense Ministry statement as saying.

    Both pilots were killed in the crash, which an unidentified government source attributed to engine failure, news agency RIA Novosti reported.
     
  5. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Here's an interesting one from:
    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20150714.aspx
     
  6. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Back to the topic: you just have to smash into the door and ... the whole rotten navy will come collapsing down.
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Two things

    One. Why waste the effort of smashing a door? When all you have to do is...Wait.

    Two. whole rusting navy...rusting is the word you were looking for.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Not sure if you saw all of the pics of the abandoned rocket site. This is the Russian website.
    ...And the facility is actually not far away from another facility that is still in use, as well as a small town nearby and a large city within view.
    http://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/220278.html
     
  9. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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  10. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Russia is doing well. They just quit 110,000 government workers. I bet they wave the flag for Putin.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  12. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Two link's with the exact same text is pointless.

    That aside, having the tech and being able to pay for and build it in a timely fashion in the number's required are two completely different factors.

    I would also be cautious on giving it too much praise, It's the first of the class that took 20 years to be commissioned from being laid down.
     
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Interesting that Putin signed the new Navy protocol and plan to be a big ruler in the Mediterranean and Atlantic. That must mean alot of new ships because one or two ships cannot rule or protect each other, you need carriers,subs,destoryers,cruisers etc. Wondering how much money it takes to built those fleets...
     
  14. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    History repeats again just in different form and people learn from the past.

    ... and those who fall behind get beaten. But we do not want to be beaten. No, we refuse to be beaten! One feature of the history of old Russia was the continual beatings she suffered because of her backwardness. She was beaten by the Mongol khans. She was beaten by the Turkish beys. She was beaten by the Swedish feudal lords. She was beaten by the Polish and Lithuanian gentry. She was beaten by the British and French capitalists. She was beaten by the Japanese barons. All beat her because of her backwardness, military backwardness, cultural backwardness, political backwardness, industrial backwardness, agricultural backwardness. They beat her because to do so was profitable and could be done with impunity. Do you remember the words of the prerevolutionary poet: "You are poor and abundant, mighty and impotent, Mother Russia." Those gentlemen were quite familiar with the verses of the old poet. They beat her, saying: "You are abundant; so one can enrich oneself at your expense. They beat her, saying: "You are poor and impotent '" so you can be beaten and plundered with impunity. Such is the law of the exploiters-to beat the backward and the weak. It is the jungle law of capitalism. You are backward, you are weak-therefore you are wrong; hence, you can be beaten and enslaved. You are mighty-therefore you are right; hence, we must be wary of you. That is why we must no longer lag behind.

    J. V. Stalin, February 1931
     
  15. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    We are just going to have to resolve our differences. ..Going to have to eventually unite against nutty religious extremists who don't care about politics, history, life...
    Let's identify the real long term problem : religious extremism.
    If we could get China / Russia on board, then work towards a common goal...
     
  16. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Getting Russia and China on board to combat religious extremism really isn't a golden solution, What are they realistically going to bring to the table?

    To combat extremism you don't use more guns and soldiers and bombs, that only helps to fuel the extremism. What you need to do is nation building, But build the nation in the form best suiting them, Dont force a particular style onto them as that does not work.
     
    green slime likes this.
  17. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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  18. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    From:
    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20150805.aspx
    Perhaps not "On Verge of Collapse" but certainly being stressed.
     
  19. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Two decades of relatively no growth, Just patch work to hold it all together and now suffering major economical issues through low oil prices and economic sanctions.. Oh it is collapsing.
     
  20. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    #376
    Is there no comparison between fanatical/ kamikazee emperor freaks in Japan 1945 to the fanatical freaks we now fight? They use the same barbaric kamakazi tacticts/disregard for life as Japan did then.
    At least China/us/Russia etc can agree that religion is the worst enemy, which may explain the US's recent turn away from religious artifacts in courthouses/schools/holidays etc.

    What would China or Russia bring to the table?...Information, contacts, dialogue, etc. We could unite against something most people realize (islam) is just propaganda in order to control people/money. Like most religion... Scientology for instance.

    Building nations who subvert women/minorities/freedom? No. It is them who need to see the light.
    Post bomb, Japan is now an ally. They seem happy. Women drive and vote etc.
     

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