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Sabre vs MiG

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by me262 phpbb3, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    some say that the sabre is some kind of desendent of the messersmith technology and the Mig is from the FW
     
  2. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Hmmmm. Never heard that one before. I can believe it about the F-86, though, given the shape of its airframe.
     
  3. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    Sabres had the manuevering edge, MIGs the speed and altitude edge. It just depends on the preferences and skills of the pilots. If the U.S. pilots hadn't been significantly better than 99% of the Soviet Bloc pilots, the ratios would have been much more even.
     
  4. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Likely enough. Quite often it was the skill of the individual pilots that made the difference in the air battles of any war.
     
  5. liang

    liang New Member

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    Absolutely

    Fortunately, a larger number of German jets and engineers fell into their hands, the rest, as they say, is history.
     
  6. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    Did anybody know that during the korean war, american pilots fighted agains russian pilots???
    the russian were ordered to comunicate only in chinese or korean to avoid detection, and is highly probable that the top russian ace, Kozhedub, participate there too!!!
     
  7. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Yes, that's true. They had a very hard time against the American pilots, by all accounts.
     
  8. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    I guess that did not help the north koreans, the sabres have a better kill ratio than any other plane in the war :smok: :smok:
    also I think that the training the russians have did not compare to the americans
     
  9. Keiraknightleylover

    Keiraknightleylover New Member

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    F-86 by far. The statistics vs. the Mig 17 are astounding.
    I've seen both these planes fly at airshows and I have to go w/the F-86.
    Yes, Russian pilots did help out in the Korean war, but it didn't stop the American pilots much from shooting them down.
    Roel, how can you not like the F-86?? It's a beauty. Maybe b/c you haven't seen it in the air?
     
  10. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    the sabre against the Mig 15, not the Mig 17
     
  11. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    Any insights as to how the Soviets got the Rolls Royce jet engine plans (used in the MIG 15) from the Brits, a truly monumental blunder? I've read that they bought them, I've read that they stole them, and I've read that they won them in a card game.
     
  12. Keiraknightleylover

    Keiraknightleylover New Member

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    Thanks Me262 for the correction. I couldn't remember which one and just went with the more familar one for me. I guess I'm too lazy to look it up :D
     
  13. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    the R & R Ne Ne was "given" as a token of friendship. bad mistake I would say, :bang: :angry:
     
  14. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams Member

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    The F-86 and MiG-15 were closely matched as aircraft; the difference in kill rates was almost entirely down to pilot training, as has been said. The Russians tended to rotate their pilots to give as many as possible of them experience in jet combat, but that meant that each batch was just getting the hang of how to fight the Sabres when a fresh batch came along, who had to start all over again.

    The armament of both planes proved less than ideal. The MiG had one 37mm and two 23mm cannon, which had different trajectories. Both were slow-firing with quite a low muzzle velocity, so it was difficult to connect. Of course, when they did connect the effect was devastating, from the 37mm particularly; one hit was generally enough. The Sabre's six .50 M3 had a combined rate of fire of 7,200 rpm, but the little bullets weren't really up to the job; the MiG was far more strongly built than a prop fighter. So it took over 1,000 rounds to down each MiG.

    The best armament was the four 20mm cannon fitted to USN, British and Australian fighters, but the planes weren't as good. Towards the end of the war the USAF tested 20mm cannon in some Sabres, and this calibre was selected to replace the .50 afterwards.

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
     
  15. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Churchill didn't give the Soviets the Nene BTW, it was a later Prime-Minister (I think Atlee, but I'm not sure).

    Churchill's distrust of the Soviets was truly monumental, he wouldn't have considered such a thing.

    It was sort of donated on a lend-lease basis as a pattern engine to allow the Soviets licence production, they never did pay the licence royalties though!
     
  16. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Just as a side note, a Mig-15 was shot down during the Korean War by an American pilot flying a Chance-Vought F4U Corsair! I wish I knew the details on this rather impressive kill. Anyone out there know?
     
  17. Keiraknightleylover

    Keiraknightleylover New Member

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    WOW! ww2 era prop propeller plane taking out a MIG. That is very impressive.
     
  18. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Yep. And evidently, the Corsair pilot survived the incident.
     
  19. Skua

    Skua New Member

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    Unfortunately a mate of mine has borrowed the journal I have which describes not only this incident, but also the encounter between MiG-15s and Hawker Furies of the Fleet Air Arm. The latter incident saw one MiG-15 shot down and another damaged for the loss of no Furies. I´ll get back to you with the details when I get my journal back. Anyway, the MiG-15s was totally outperformed by those WWII fighters in a good old fashioned dogfight and soon learned not to get themselves involved with them in this way.

    The big WWII prop MiG-killing aircraft of the Korean War was the B-29 btw. B-29s shot down no less than 16 MiG-15s during their service in the war.
     
  20. Keiraknightleylover

    Keiraknightleylover New Member

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    B-29 bombers from ww2?
     

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