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Strange picture of a Tiger 2 i found

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by Svdkfz184_Ferdinand, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Svdkfz184_Ferdinand

    Svdkfz184_Ferdinand New Member

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    So I'm working on a Tiger 2 build (dragon 1:35 scale) and I'm looking at pics for ideas on camo nets etc.

    And I come acrost this strange picture of a KO tiger 2 that appears to have a 75mm cannon which could be about the length of the stug/pz 4 long barrel cannon.

    If thats not wierd enough upon further inspection it appears that theres a panther 2/panther with the schmalturm turret. The cheecks of the turret are too big for the normal turret and the actual turret height is way too tall.

    I'm assuming the Tiger was pretty new because the track armor on the side of the turret is all there which is hardly ever seen on KO'd tigers.

    Ok so if you can tell me whats really going on in this pic I'd love to know. The panther is questionable, its not really possible to tell what turret but i doubt its a schmalturm. The Tiger though intrigues me.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I wonder if that isn't a field repair of a Tiger II that has taken a hit at the end of the gun?
     
  3. Svdkfz184_Ferdinand

    Svdkfz184_Ferdinand New Member

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    Well that is a possibility but I think its a very unlikely one. I think if the barrel was hit the muzzle break would have been damaged too, still thats a great conclusion.

    I still think it looks like a 75mm L/48 or L/43 gun. My first thought was that the 88mm was damaged beond repair and since it was so late in the war they just mounted a L/48 or something on it because that was all they had.

    The Germans would do that to some allied tanks, they captured a KV-1 and mounted a 75mm L/43 gun and a pz 4 commanders coupola. Just search
    "Pz.Kpfw KV-1 753"

    But, yea I'm not sure if they field repaired it and lost almost 1/2 the barrel if you could really even use it effectively.
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    You would just use a muzzle brake from another KO'd Tiger - a quick fix until you could replace the entire gun. Cut the barrel, thread it for a brake, roll it back out the door... It might be something you'd do if you wanted to get the tank back out the door in 24 hours during an offensive. I'm just guessing, but no doubt some of our armor experts will be along to provide more insight.
     
  5. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    I wonder if the angle of the barrel since it may be facing away makes appear shorter then it is. My guess is that it is about a 45 degree angle away from the front
     
  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    Just a thought. Maybe someone edited the original picture sometime over the past 70 years to fit it into a book or other presentation.
     
  7. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Would make sense except that the turret would then have shown more of the front or the rear, Since the turret is almost side on the shortness of the gun can not be accounted for due to the picture angle.
     
  8. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Looks to me what often happens when an AFV is knocked out - it catches fire, the oil in the barrel recoil mechanism burns out, and the weight of the barrel makes it sink back into full-recoil position........
     
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  9. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    As stated the recoil fluids have been drained the gun fired and/or damaged by fire. Same effect either way.
     
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  10. Svdkfz184_Ferdinand

    Svdkfz184_Ferdinand New Member

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    So you guys are saying its probably inside the tank? I would say no because the tiger 2's gun breach inside the turret goes far enough back that it would only be able to fall back about a foot, and thats if the gun is facing upwards!

    Thats another thing, if the gun fell back you would think the barrel would be facing upwards.
     
  11. Svdkfz184_Ferdinand

    Svdkfz184_Ferdinand New Member

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    Yea also when i copied the picture it warped so thats it should be wider and less fat, im going to try to edit it.
     
  12. Svdkfz184_Ferdinand

    Svdkfz184_Ferdinand New Member

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    But the Tiger 2 had a fatter section of the barret just after the matlet, which in the picture is missing. And I have seen some KT's that were KO and the barrel slid in a bit but still half the fat section was still visible and the barrel was facing upwards to make this even possible.
     
  13. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    As a matter of interest, the same photograph appears on p.287of Wolfgang Schneider's 'Tigers In Combat II' ( Stackpole, 2005 ). The Tiger is listed as belonging to SS-Panzer-Abteilung 502 and the photo caption says that Tiger 321 ran over a mine during the counterattack on Kietz near the River Oder. It was then destroyed by a captured Panzerfaust on the morning of 28 March 1945. Only the gunner escaped from the tank.
     
  14. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Is it me or does the track on the right look like it's missing? Disabled but not out of action
     
  15. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    It really is just the gun at full-recoil+. There are lots of photos of Tigers with the same damage.
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    Another vote here for knackered gun sunk back into it's mantlet.
    Fatter section of barrel gone with it.
    Noticeable slope or elevation not required as gun very very heavy (though that looks on a gradient to me), heat plays funny tricks on metal, and who knows what shakes or hits it took during and after knocking out.
     
  17. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    I also vote for gun at full recoil, it's also consistent with the stackpole caption, but we need some schematics of how far the gun can recoil to be sure, a field repair seems unlikelyas, besides missing track, the vehicle looks brand new (Headlamp and hull MG are still there and the MG is usually one ofthe first items to go).
     
  18. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Again from Schneider's book, Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 502 came out of France in 1944 with no tanks left. They took delivery of 31Tiger IIs at Paderborn between 14th Feb / 6th March 1945 and went into action on 23rd March.
     
  19. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    That's a good theory. Maybe a fire burned up the recoil fluid and also cooked off a chambered round.
     
  20. Svdkfz184_Ferdinand

    Svdkfz184_Ferdinand New Member

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    Yea my first thought on seeing it was the gun slid down.

    Then i thought it wouldn't have room etc as i stated earlier. As you and I have stated it is brand new.

    The tracks on the side of the turret are still all there and as you said the mg 42's are still there which if there was a fire you would have thought they would have burnt out if an 88mm L/71 did.

    You obveously are a ww2 nut xD I can't blame you I am too. In this book does it say anything else about the tank?

    If you could give more info about it that would be great. Everything is just turning out messed up and i guess the surviving gunner (whos probably dead) is the only one who will orobably ever know.
     

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