The Battle Of Attrition Begins In Normandy!

Historian Terry Copp has described this being the point were the Normandy campaign changed into a battle of attrition
for the US, British, and Canadian. Preliminary Operations were launched on the 15th and 16th, with Op Greenline and
Pomegranet. These two operations cost the Second Army Estimated at 3,500 casualties. Terry Copp how was there in
the Second World War part of the Canadian Army, has stated that these battles rank as "one of the bloodiest encounters
of the Normandy campaign".

The reality on the severity of the situation would begin on the 18th and by the 26th the full extent of the sheer carnage
would be revealed.

Goodwood;The British army lost a total of 4,837 men killed, wounded or taken prisoner. I Corps had 3,817 casualties, and
VIII Corps 1,020 casualties and thats just for the largest Tank Battle ever lost by the British which lasted for two days and
Goodwood was extended until the 26th. The armoured divisions lost 140 tanks knocked out and a further 174 tanks damaged
in various degrees.11th Armoured Division was the worst hit, losing 191 tanks.The number of British tank losses are subject
of debate, and some historians put the number of destroyed British tanks at 300.A large part of the tanks knocked out of
battle could be repaired but the Guards Division, the 11th Armoured Division and "The Desert Rats" had lost 469 tanks
VIII Corps lost 131 tanks on the 19th and another 68 on the 20th, and to these numbers should be added the losses of
the British I and Canadian II Corps due to lack of statistics, these numbers will remain unknown.

Cobra; On 18 July, at a cost of 5,000 US casualties, the American 29th and 35th Infantry Divisions managed to gain the
vital heights of Saint-Lô, driving back General der Fallschirmtruppen Eugen Meindl's II Parachute Corps.Having been delayed
several times by poor weather, Operation Cobra commenced on 25 July in conjunction with Goodwood and Spring.

Atlantic; an utter disaster 1,400 Allied casualties were endured during Operation Atlantic the majority of them in the 4th and
6th Canadian infantry brigades. It's to be note the Casualty count are not accurate and believed to be much Higher.

Spring; estimated at 2,200 and only God knows the real count, was Sheer Utter Carnage and clearly shows what happens when
High ranking officers make horrendous horrific decisions, and then Falsify many records and documents while blaming it on
the Canadian Regiments and a Major for their "Detailed Execution." While all fought as Poet Warriors, with Honour and Heroic Gallantry,
For a Ridge To High.

Lest We Forget.



Source;

Copp
Tamelander, Zetterling, p. 288
Daglish, p. 37-38
Wilmot, p. 362
Fortin, p. 19
Ellis, p. 247
Blumenson, p. 188
Trew, p. 97–98
Williams, p. 185

 

You for got the Polish again.

 

The Poles did not land in Normandy until the end of July.

 

Thats not the point your so suppose to add every one...

 

Mr Mark Lets get real Icci. The 1st Polish Armoured Division, which distinguished itself at Boisjos-en-Coudehard, reached the front in Normandy on August 1st, 1944, with thirteen thousand men, three hundred and eighty-one tanks and 4,431 vehicles.

On August 8th the division went into action south of Caen and, on August 19th, it closed the Falaise-Chambois 'pocket' at Hill 262, cutting off the retreat of the German Seventh Army. In this supreme test, which has been given the title of “The Stalingrad of Normandy", it had eighty-seven of its tanks engaged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/46/a2450846.shtml

 

I'm just saying o and Sherman's are cheap and cromwells are some what better.

 

Thank you for helping out.

 

What i met was the Sherman had only 63mm armor and had a very high silhouette making them easy targets for German tanker's and tank hunter teams.Leading to heavy losses in Normandy.The Cromwell was slightly better with slightly thicker armor 76mm and a much lower silhouette made them better tanks to be in but less than 5,000 were built and not all British Armor units were equip with them. But over all the it had a 75mm gun which has less power than the Sherman's 76mm gun.
I figured if the Americans tried to find a alternative the Sherman (Or up gun it with a bigger gun like Israel did) and deployed the Pershing earlier and the British built more Cromwell's and firefly's or make a deal with the Americans to build some for them i I strongly belive losses would have been a lot lighter.
Not to go off topic of course.

 

so I'm guessing i can't go.........
Point I'm trying to make is Cromwell have a better survival rate and i did compare the Sherman to other battle tanks the t-34 and panther they had better armor.
Can i got now?

 

Not sure you'll be able to respond to this but.
Why do you think height was a problem in Normandy?

By the way if you have a hard time with spelling and gramar you can always compose your post in a word processor. Most of them will check both for you. If you don't want to take the time to clean up a post why should others take the time to read it? Not that I don't make spelling, typing, and gramatica errors myself but that last post was almost incoherent.

 

And no i don't need a word processing thing i can spell perfectly i just type to fast............
Height is just not Normandy but everything typically the taller/bigger you are your easier to hit.

 

Well, then, if you type too fast it should be even more reason to proof read your posts before you hit the "reply" button. You have been given some very good advice from well respected members of this forum and it would benefit you to heed it.

 

Which Copp book are you quoting? He has written several on the Canadians in Normandy. Citations not only back up data and facts, but act as a road map leading others to further reading. Wouldn't it be a good idea to include a book title in the notes? Just a suggestion.

Greg C.

 

The Panther was bigger than the Sherman by 10inches and the t-34 was only 8feet and the panzer4 was 8feet and 10 inches. Length wise the panther was 22feet and 6inches with out main gun and the Sherman19feet and 2inchies t-34 21feet and the panzer4 was 23feet.

 

I've read through this same subject in several books, & on nearly a dozen discussion threads across the interenet. usually these discussions overfocus on the technical matters, & frequently get them wrong. The example a few posts back illustrates this.

One aspect that seldom emerges in these discussions is the combat experience of the US Army tank crews in Normandy. Of the two divisions deployed in Normandy, 2d & 3rd Armored only the 2d had any combat experience & that was a days worth in Morroco & a couple weeks in Sicilly. Of the independant tank battalions that supported the infantry divisions maybe one or two had any previous combat experince. In a broader view the experience of the US Army in Normandy was 'light' On 6th June only one of the four infantry divisions that came ashore (1st, 4th, 29th, 90th) had any combat experience & as the campaign progressed the ratio of previosuly experienced to 'Green' units declined.

The point here it is a unfortunant fact that inexperinced units, however well trained, take a lot of unnecessary losses in their first weeks of combat.

The Brits were only slightly better off in this regard, with the proportion of combat experinced formations only slightly higher than in the US 1st Army.

Conversely the Germans had a combat experienced commander & staff in every division, no matter how poorly manned the lowest ranks were. And, the battalions were cadred with veterans.

Any excessive losses of Sherman tanks in Normandy had more to do with the inexperience of Allied tankers & infantry in applying their training to real combat conditions.

 

The lack of battle experience of the 3rd Canadian Division in Normandy as well many of the officers of the 1st Canadian Army was probably a contributing factor to their high losses. The 2nd Canadian Division's experience was obtained at Dieppe, and those who arrived in Normandy with experience were those that survived that carnage. The Generals by J.L. Granatstein gives short biographies on some of the more significant Canadian Generals, and there were only a few with modern battle experience (those who were transferred from Italy) in command as the Battle for Normandy began.

Please note sources listed reiterate general information stated above as learned by poster over years of reading and researching - they were not quoted or sourced prior to writing.

Canadian 3rd Division on D-Day: Three Rifle Brigades Land on Juno Beach to Attack Atlantic Wall

Second Division

Military History: Second World War: Liberation of France: D-Day