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The Black Prince tank

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Kai-Petri, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Just checked a War File DVD on Churchill tanks and this was mentioned. It seems they never made it to war.

    The Black Prince was the name assigned to an experimental development of the Churchill infantry tank with a larger, wider hull and a QF 17-pounder (76mm) gun. It was named after a 14th century figure, Edward, Prince of Wales who fought at Crecy.

    The slow speed of the Black Prince and ready availability of M4 Shermans which could be upgraded as "Fireflies" with the 17 pounder gun limited this tank to experimental status.

    Six prototypes were completed.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    So everybody agrees sherman was better?
     
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Sherman was better, Comet was better, and the, just appearing, Centurion was way better.
     
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  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Everybody agrees with he tommy cooker/ronson then as the usual nick name was?
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    That would work for almost any tank of the time. Little protection was given to the ammunition of most tanks.

    For the Sherman, it held true until the use of the "wet" ammunition storage bins.
     
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  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Sorry but how do yo make ammo "wet"?
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Wet stowage consisted of surrounding the ammunition stowage bins with a water/gylcerine mixture held in an outer hollow casing. The idea was that the water mixture would pour out over any penetration of the bins by enemy AP shot/ shell fragments thereby preventing or at least slowing ammunition fires.

    This modification appeared in Feb 44 on late production M4A3s

    A US Army study showed that 10 - 15% 0f wet stowage Shermans burned compared with up to 80% of dry stowage vehicles.
     
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  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Thank you very much! You sure know yours as well as I do mine. Respect!
     
  10. davidbrok1

    davidbrok1 New Member

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    So I got it yesterday and I kinda hate it. Actually I hate it a lot so far. I feel like every other VII tank got upgraded while I got just a bigger Churchill, same gun same armor, just more HP (that deplete faster due to the ion cannons the IS's have). Most of the time I stand with the tracks blown and get pummeled from all directions. I'm not good nor bad player (2k~ games, 51% winratio).

    So before I do something I will regret in the future, please give me a tip or two on how to play this turtle efficiently.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    The book to get on Black Prince.
    Accept no substitutions:

    prince.png

    Entirely valid concept, as the Churchill (despite what's often said) had proved a heavily armoured success, hampered mostly by that old bugbear of limited gun.
    They made a great leap with the na75 modifications, but hit a very hard stop by the size & placement of the turret ring. Just proved absolutely impossible to squeeze in a larger one as required for comfortable fitment of 17 or upcoming 20pdr.
    So why not cut & shut a Churchill, just to see...
    It proved a promising and reasonably reliable prototype, despite engine power issues that could have been addressed, though its weight was always going to be an issue.

    As alluded, though; It was a stop-gap-ish modification to a previous generation of tank. A41, 45 etc. finally represented progress towards the 'Universal' machines most knew were needed. So why bother investing scarce resources in anything less promising.
     
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  12. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Because, some of the promising designs had run into developmental problems that were taking longer to work out, while others had not yet proven themselves in combat. The British hedged their bets with the Black Prince...If the others failed in combat, the Black Prince could have then stepped in and filled their place.
     
  13. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    If your spending most of your time with your treads knocked out, your playing the tank wrong. Your slow, and always going to be slow...Accept this as fact. Engage from cover, preferably a hull down position, and avoid open areas like the plague. It is counter intuitive to fighting with smaller, faster tanks, but you are a large fat target

    Your are also slab-sided, so if you have to engage in the open, turn the tank hull so it is angled to the enemy/incoming fire - this will give a sloped side that will be harder to penetrate.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    The final decision on whether to proceed with Black Prince was after A43/Cent had come online, and A50-ish things had barely got off the ground. Postwar.
    Hence 'Why continue?'. The powers that be saw no more than a dead end. (And with the tank combat envisioned at that time being against Soviet equipment, they knew full well that only the next generation was worth pursuing.)
    Another nail was It being very much a Vauxhall project, and almost immediately postwar Vauxhall declared it's lack of interest in further tank/AFV work. They wanted to return to cars & lorries soon as.
    British development under Gibb had become pretty light-footed & efficient by that point. Knew what they wanted & open to new ideas, trying so many (often esoteric) things, and quick to discard dead ends. A43 was pretty much stillborn.
     
  15. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Well, Porsche never won the Tiger competition....
     

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