Things we censor out of our history becuase we won

I have read alot of WWII books, and I can see we really don't talk much about the faults in our allied armies.

First off, most people have a common misconception of normandy. Most people think we just breezed through the towns and villages while the germans fled. This is not true, more so for the Brits and Canadians since they took the brunt of the SS armoured divisions while the US fought with the regular german army. First of is all those Private Ryan moments where a small force of troops help off large groups of the enemy are wrong. In fact the germans were the one who did that. There are dozens of examples where small groups of german troops held up entire allied advances with 2 or 3 88's. Not to mention the Germans pushed back the allies several times before we took our objectives.

Now I can admit the US did considerable fighting in WWII, but they tend to view other allied countries efforts very poorly. Just to clear some things up with americans, here are a few thing you did not do. 1)The P-51 mustang was a british design given to the US, and it flew very well with the british Merlin engine while it was a flamming death trap with the US engine. 2)Don't take credit for liberating Rome. It was the Canadian army that fought up to rome, where then, they were pulled of the front while the americans went into Rome. 3)Don't use the causilty figures to defend your poor advance distance on D-Day. The Canadians took 2000 causilties on Juno and advanced 10km inland after some very hard fought urban fighting. Not to mention Utah deaths were around 10, and they didn't go very far. 4)NO the firefly sherman was british, not american and was the only western allied tank that could take out a tiger at a good range, 600 yards through frontal armour with their 17 pounder british anti-tank gun. I've got nothing against americans, but I hate getting some of these questions or replies from you guys.

Now, i know the germans were bad to the russians, but the russians were worst than the germans were. First off the russians had a nasty habbit of rapping any female at any age they found. Girls as young as 7 and as old as 80 were rapped by red army troops as they advance into germany. There are even stories of russian troops rapping concentration camp survivors! They can claim they were "murdered" all they want, the germans never raped 7 y/o's, actually there was an order forbidding any intercourse with russian females. Russians also murdered on a much larger scale. One russian Sub sunk a ship carrying refugees, killing over 4000 people, the worst sea disaster in history. The captain got the hero of the soviet union medel for it.

Russians can't also say they saved the world in WWII becuase they would of collapsed fast if they did not get so many shipments of good from North America.

Another big misconception, the P-51 "tank buster" could only bust tanks with the bombs it carried, it was really useless after that. However the British Tempests and Typhoons were the prime allied tank busters with eight 60lb rockets under their wings and four 20mm cannons which could pierce the top armor of almost any german tank. The tempest also doubled as a fight and was one of the only allied plane to shoot down a ME-262 in the air. It had a 24 cyclinder engine so it could put out a fair speed.

 

Overall I agree.

The problem is that German counter-attacks certainly caused such situations to exists, as they concentrated troops against selected areas of the Allied front. So while it may be wrong to portay the entire campaign as such, it is certainly not wrong to portray such episodes!

False. The North American (note manufacturer!) P-51 was a US design, and was sort of decent with the Allison engine, but was substantially improved when the Brits fitted the Merlin.

Well, the Sherman was a US design, manufactured in the US. Fitting a decent gun to it was certainly a good idea, but I don't know if it makes the tank "British".

Arguing who is "worse" is a rather pointless exercise. Still, I'd say the particular brand of state-sponsored violence sponsored by Nazi Germany was quite a bit crueler than that practiced by the Soviet Union.

For example, did you know that several thousand Red Army troops and officers were tried and sentenced for the numeorus cases of murder, rape and looting in Germany? While the Soviets probably could have cared less about the fate of the Germans, the actions significantly impeded progress in the war and caused friction with the western Allies. Whatever the causes for prosections, at least the Soviets did it.

Soviet subs indeed sank a number of passenger ships in the Baltic. Of course, how the Soviet sub was supposed to know Willhelm Gustloff (for example) were carrying civilians, in addition to wounded and evacuated military personell is another matter altogether. Spotting a darkened ship under escort, at night, with no Red Cross markings, tends to make boarding and inspecting kind of tricky... This sort of thing happens. During the same period RAF Typhoons attacked the passenger liner Cap Arcona in the Lübeck area, causing many thousands of losses as the ship blazed in a few minutes. The ship was carrying Polish, Ukrainian, French, and other prisoners of war, jews and other inmates from concentration camps. Germans on the shore were noted as picking off the survivors with rifles and machineguns as they swam towards the shore, to prevent escape. But similarly to the Soviet sub, how could the RAF know what was being carried?

False. By the time significant aid started arriving the Red Army had already thrown back the Germans from Moscow.

False. Me-262s were also shot down by US P-51s and Soviet Lavochkin La-7s, to mention a few. Soviet pilot Ivan Kozhedub is noted for downing a Me-262 at speed, rather than during landing, for example.

 

I have to disagree with some of the information you have put out about the P-51. I don't know of anyone who used the aircraft as a tank buster. They were used as an escort fighter for bombers and the early A and B models were used some for ground attack work.
The early Mustangs had Allison engines and were not death traps. They did not have the range and high alitudes that the C and D models had and so were used for low altitude duties and recon work.
The P-51 development was paid for by the British but the design was done by employees of North American Aviation. The early aircraft had Allison engines but later changed to Rolls Royce engines built by Packard in the USA.
Also I can not agree about shipment of goods to Russia saved them from the Germans. The Germans were not prepared for the Russian winter and were overextended from their supply lines. US goods helped the Russians but did not save them.

 

no RAF a/c could pierce German tranks with the 20mm, rockets if you were lucky enough to hit. a note by ammo expert Tony williams on the destruction of German armor by Allied "jabos" is quite enlightening. I cannot remember if he posted that here or not. But official German tank kills by RAF and US single engine a/c are few in respect to the overclaiming that was done in Europe. Much of the flair of the rocket attacsk needs to be tempered down.....

the P-51 as Ta mentioned was chiefly used as a protective escort and then secondary as a ground attack shooting up parked German a/c on airfields and MT on roads

 

Kelly… welcome to the forums. I just have to tell you that there are many non-Americans in this forum…

One more thing to thank general Mark Clark for…

The gun might have been British-made and the tank British-used, but it was an American-designed, tested, developed and built…

Not at all. The Germans killed almost 30 million Soviet citizens, mostly civilians. The Germans invaded the Soviet Union on June 21st 1941 and started the most brutal war ever, a genocidal war of utter annihilation. The Germans were the first to bomb cities, killed unarmed POWs, burn villages, steal all food and living means, throwing thousands of people into the Russian winter, killing Party members, comissars, bureaucrats and, of course, Jews. What about Babbi-Yar and the Einsatzgruppen? What about the 1.000.000 people killed in Lieningrad by starvation or bombing?

The totalitarian Soviet Union just responded accordingly. It is surprisingly that the two most brutal dictators in Human History fight each other to death according to their usual brutality levels? Is it not understandable that the peoples of the Soviet Union fought the way they did against an invader whose ultimate goal was the enslavement and then phisical annihilation of these peoples, an emeny which did not respect any rule of war or humanity from the very beginning?

Do you really expect that Russian soldiers, who had seen the destruction of their country and the deaths of millions of their comrades, relatives and friends and who had liberated Auschwitz, Majdanek or Treblinka, gave the Germans the pity they had not provided to anyone?

Still, even after the execution of SS men, the raping of thousands of women, the Soviets provided the civilian population with medical supplies and food. Please compare the Soviet occupation of Germany and the German occupation of the Soviet Union… there you go!

False! Lend & Lease was very important, but Soviet victory (against 75% of the German Armed Forces) did not depend of it. Did the Americans and British provided the millions of soldiers, sailors and airmen or the thousands of tanks and guns that killed 4 million German soldiers?

Whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, 75% of the victory in Europe in WWII is owed to 'evil Uncle Joe, his millions of dirty Slavs, and the perverted communist Union of Soviet Socialist Rupublics'…

Completely right. But let's go further: what about the Germans sinking ships loaded with civilians being evacuated from Lieningrad, when they were crossing Lake Ladoga? Or crossing the Volga at Stalingrad?

For your information, the Germans started the conflict, and from day one they set the rules; or the lack of.

As a matter of fact, they were not prepared for pretty much anything in Russia… they didn't have enough trains, lorries, maps, adequate uniforms, occupation policies, even a bloody basic strategy!!!

 

They did not pity any country.One good example is Bulgaria that was in good relations with nazi Germany but never took part in the Barbarossa was raped and destroyed as well.

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5. Bulgaria: Pressured by Germany into a friendship agreement in February 1941 and participated in the invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia, though refrained from joining in the invasion of the Soviet Union. Occupied by the Soviet Union in 1944 and changed sides to declare war on Germany.

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

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Just to show that war is cruel and nobody´s safe really.