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Tora! Tora! Tora!

Discussion in 'WWII Films & TV' started by LRusso216, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Watched this film last night. Its been years since I saw it, and it has aged well. Good movie that plumbs the beginning of the Pacific war for the US. The attitude of the Japanese still astounds me.
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    What about the Japanese attitude astounds you?

    That they entered into a war against two of the most powerful nations on the globe...That they entered into a war in which they had only the very slimmest of chances to winning...That those "slimmest of chances" was based entirely on their enemies throwing in the towel quite early in the conflict.
     
  3. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    All of those things. After reading Hotta's Japan 1941, the element of Japanese thinkers that the US would capitulate seems to have driven the Japanese government into a war that they were anxious to avoid. The film hints at that, but the action and actors were first rate.
     
  4. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Perhaps the Japanese experience against the Russians in 1905 had something to do with it, as well as the Government & Military usurpation of the Japanese creed of Bushidō.
    Fighting, and war was a matter of willpower. If you hold such a belief, it becomes difficult to argue against "No, I don't think we really want badly enough to win..."
     
  5. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    It's a good film, and as you say has aged quite well which in my opinion is a good test of quality. That applies for music especially well also.

    I appreciate that film does portray the flippant attitude of the Japanese toward their adversaries without vilifying them outright.
     
  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    Great movie.

    One of the things that made it so good was using two seperate production companies who worked independently, a Japanese one for the Japanese portions and an American one for the American portions.
     
  7. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    I still watch it....I was based on Oahu [ Marine Barracks PH ], after reading WW2 for a long time...so it was like a dream/destiny/etc come true...showing both sides is nicely done
     
  8. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    When channel hopping, it will hold my attention at least through a few commercial breaks, but I have not watched it complete for many years. Overall a entertaining film whose model work holds up well against most modern CGI. In thinking back about the film, it conveys most of the facts tolerably well but is a little fraught with clichés in doing so.
     
  9. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Good movie, I like it when films show both sides. And not like many bollywood films only one heroic side and the other side is stupid and evil :) Well probably even true in some cases. However even if the Japanese were weird and brutal, I admit that I sometimes admire them....

    You know these scenes when the air warrior gets handed his samurai sword and all the guys salute, he takes the sword like a holy subject enters the cockpit. Looks bit back at the guys and salutes. Guys salute back then he swings into the air, all the guys waving their hats as farewell........so poetic somehow.

    Btw: Yamamoto warned the Japanese to go to war vs. USA, he knew it was a sleeping giant. It also seems Japan suffered from a rivalry between army and navy, the army guys were typical the more fanatic ones, while admirals were a bit more careful.

    Other films who show both sides of the fence are the 2 bridge movies btw: Arnhem & Remagen :) Both good.
     
  10. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    good point here, especially when compared to the movie Pearl Harbor....
     
  11. mcoffee

    mcoffee Son-of-a-Gun(ner)

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    Most of the aircraft work in TORA did not use models. About 50 AT-6 Texans and BT-13's were rebuilt to represent A6Ms, B5N Kates, and D3A Vals. Many of these "Hollywood Zeros" still make the airshow circuit and fly with the real warbirds. You can always pick them out by the distinctive AT-6 landing gear.
     
  12. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    I cannot stand schmonz stuff ala PH or even Titanic etc. Why people like such movies is beyond me.

    Other example would be the submarine movie (name?) in which the US captured the enigma. Lol. It was captured by the poles (or british?) in reality.
     
  13. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    yes, I thought the Poles did get it first? did they get another off a Uboat? but they already had the other one??...
     
  14. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    My memory says one was hauled out of a sinking uboat. Hope that is true.
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    For the Poles, it was not that "dramatic"...They bought one of the commercially available Enigma coding machines. The problem was that the the commercial model differed from the military version. Here, the French unwittingly came to the aid of the Poles, when they passed along an German Army Enigma manual and sheets of monthly key settings to the Polish cryptologists. This information allowed the Poles to "reverse engineer" the military model of the Enigma machine.

    A good website on the effort to crack Enigma: http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/index.htm
    About halfway down the webpage, look for the "VirtualBP" link or "The Enigma" link.

    Of course, there is always Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma
     
  16. dude_really

    dude_really Doesn't Play Well With Others

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    a) that is coz Yama had stayed and studied in US quite long time. And the Jap leaders had no idea how the americans were other than a few touristst and diplomatic exchanges.
    Question is: would their mindset have changed if more of them had stayed and studied in the US ?
    clearly you suggest they would...I am not so sure: Arabs lived and studied in France, and yet they are so prepared to go to war against french.....today.

    b ) Both Jap soldiers and sailors were expendable..however, losing 2000 sailors means losing a few capital ships ..whereas losing 2000 soldiers is not noticable.
    That explains the "reserve" of Jap navy commanders....but whenever they had to go in a fight sure to finish dead, they did not hesitate to send their sailors in if so demanded by the supreme command...
     
  17. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    The US did get one off a U-boat they captured during the war (U-505?) which was actually a bit of a problem as there was a significant chance the Germans would have figured out that they had a captured one if they learned about it. Thus the US went to considerable lengths to hide the fact during the war.
     
  18. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    The British made the first capture of an Enigma from a U-boat, U-110, in 1941. They had picked up most of the crew, who had abandoned ship, but managed to conceal from them that they had gotten aboard and recovered materials.

    U-505 was captured in 1944 by a hunter-killer group under Captain Dan Gallery, who had planned and prepared to try to capture a U-boat if they got the chance. Not sure if Gallery knew about Ultra at that point - anyone? - but there was considerable concern that the capture might have blown the secret.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    Tora! Tora! Tora!

    Makes better dumplings!



    Sorry, Pavlovian response that doubtless ages & geo-locates me. Yes - decent film.
    (And the above confirmation of the power of Hollywood to muddy the historical water with execrable tat like U571 sends shivers up me... 6.6/10 on IMDB! Strewth. )
     
  20. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member

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    BTW, U505 is nicely displayed at the Museum of Science and Technology in Chicago. For years it was outside but now is nicely housed from the elements. U505 is a Type 9, somewhat larger than the more common "7". If you go through it also go through one of the US subs, the Gato class Drum open for tours in Mobile, Alabama . The Drum is commodious by comparison but it had to cross the Pacific initially , then from Pearl.

    Sorry For the OT post. I normally do not like older US war films but this Japanese-American effort has a documentary feel to it that holds up well. I am convinced that a modern film using digital technology in a realistic way would allow films like Tora to be made now..

    Gaines
     

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