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Typhoon breathing down the Raptor's neck?

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by Varyag, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    F-22 hasnt been around as long i guess right? so the typhoon has more of a head start (reputation wise)
     
  2. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    The F22's stealth advantage should give it an edge over most other aircraft.
     
  3. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    That should be the case but if the Typhoon for what reason can lock-on BVR before the F-22 either stealth didn't work or the Typhoon can detect the F-22 on a different manner...
     
  4. smeghead phpbb3

    smeghead phpbb3 New Member

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    Perhaps the Typhoon simply has a sufficiently powerful radar, or perhaps the excersise in question simply involved alot of radar coverage for the Typhoon pilot... Does the review say anything about that Varyag? Maybe both pilots had AWACS support
     
  5. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    A bit premature to draw conclusions from an incident that may or may not have happened as described and if it did happen could be a mere fluke.
    Every air force really, really wants to compare itself favorably with the USAF. Just as the Indians got so pumped up over an exercise that really wasn't that important, the conditions were set up very much in their favor from the outset and the results were somewhat ambiguous yet the results seemed to mean a whole lot more to the IAF than to the USAF.
    Everybody wants to think that they can run with the big dogs :grin:
     
  6. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    What are you talking about? :-?
    If an aircraft can detect the F-22 before the F-22 can...what conclusions can i draw then? Those conclusions have nothing to do with it actually happening or not...those conclusions are drawn from the info posted (true or false it doesn't matter).....my "conclusions"are so broad that they still don't say much and leave lots of things open.

    BTW sometimes those big dogs get their throtes ripped of by a smaller dog... :wink:
     
  7. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf New Member

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    Pretty much what I wrote. This report may be entirely untrue but, viewed in complete isolation, the conclusion is inescapable - unless you're a particularly partisan American or other F-22 fan - the F-22s got smoked.

    The suggestion that air combat winning radar locks can be repeatedly achieved against supposedly invisible aircraft seeking to do the same to you by pure "fluke" is preposterous, blinkered and technically naive to the point of being infantile. Unless, of course, we have an agent provocateur amongst us .... :D
     
  8. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    Infantile? do you really think such pejoratives are called for here?
    Do we want to sink to that level on these forums? I don't think so.

    Repeatedly achieved? Where does that information come from?


    As I stated previously, such conclusions..the" F-22's got smoked" are premature and not supported by substantial evidence IMO. However Despite your jumping to conclusions I will refrain from resorting to calling you names :wink:
     
  9. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    The conclusions have everything to do with whether or not the report is accurate. If it is untrue then simple logic dictates that no conclusions whatsoever, based on that report ,are justified.




    There is always that small chance... but don't wager the rent money on it :grin:
     
  10. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    But then it's not a fluke either...it's just an untrue report :wink:


    You are probable right on that :grin:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    Which is why I stated:
    note the words in caps.
     
  12. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    But still even the fluke can be part of my conclusion...at that time for some reason the F-22 was detected and locked-on before it could do that on it's advisary...wich means at that time stealth didn't work fluke or no fluke....
     
  13. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    strange question...how does the radar of a stealth aircraft work?
     
  14. smeghead phpbb3

    smeghead phpbb3 New Member

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    I believe it relies upon recieving all its radar data from AWACS... With no AWACS support a stealth fighter must turn on its own radar to scan and to navigate, thus 'exposing' itself... However the 'passive radar' that the F-22 utilises is apparently very hard to detect, as you'd expect it to be... Still, every little increase in radar signature helps the Typhoon pilot :grin:


    There are lots of perfectly sensible explanations as to how such a thing could happen (if it did happen)

    It could have been an IR detection (you know, locking on to the big flame-y things at the back of jet planes)

    It could have been an AR detection

    There may have been alot of AWACS coverage for the Typhoon pilot (the more active radar, the higher probability of detection)

    The Typhoon could have had alot of "passive radar" support on the ground which are apparently more likely to detect stealth than conventional radar

    The F-22 may have had its onboard radar switched on... Or its landing gear down... Anything to increase the signature

    There could have been other conditions contributing to increasing the F-22's radar signature... Apparrently both rain and tight turns increase the radar signature a little bit
     
  15. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Problem is, with the best will in the world test are be their nature artificial. There are generally limits to how close the combatants are allowed to get, they obviously aren't shooting real guns and missiles. The pilots aren't flying for their lives so aren’t going to be push to the limit.

    Then of course there is the question of the impartiality of those running the test. If you can be sure of one thing, its that they won't be impartial*. Weaponry is big, big business. It employs a lot of people here in Europe and in the US. So quiet simply you aren't going to get an announcement that the F22 sucks versus the Typhoon (or vice-versa). Everyone will claim their equipment is great and try to arrange tests to 'prove' it.






    *Not a slur on the honesty of Americans, more an observation on the honesty of militaries and governments.
     
  16. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    Yes, there's that.
     
  17. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Not all of its radar data all of the time. It is capable of accepting direct input from AWACS when required (or will be, I'm not sure if it's completely compatible in the early versions), but also carries an LPI (low Probability of Intercept) radar system especially configured to use low power and has reduced sidelobes.
     
  18. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    I think it's a passive radar untill they're spotted or when they close in for the kill, then the go active. And having the radar in the F&F (fire-and-forget) helps too. Find 'em, FOX 'em. (FOX ONE/TWO/THREE being the launch of semi-active, IR-guided or full active ordinace respectively.....don't ask)
     
  19. Hubsu

    Hubsu New Member

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    For 60 billion research cost, I want my LPI radar to be something like "a multi platform direct-sequence spread-spectrum radar interferometer"-ish! :)

    Just by quickly looking articles from the net, revealed jewels like this:
    http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110003216273/en/
     
  20. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    I read somewhere that Raptor has (or will have) the capability to "lock on" at sweep/ search power settings so that the target's RWR will not be aware of the lock. Probably only work with AIM-120 and anything later. I doubt AIM-7 Sparrow is capable of using this facility.
     

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