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What if Rommel got what he wanted?

Discussion in 'What If - Mediterranean & North Africa' started by Eisenhower, Oct 21, 2003.

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  1. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    yes but that didn't keep hitler's grimey little paws off of the panzer divisions in the area, leaving a lot of confusion with Rommel and Von Runstedt.
     
  2. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    There was no chance. It is incredibly harder to tell who was weakest! The Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe in June 1944! Their miraculous efforts simply could not fight the Allies with their 12.000 planes and 5.000 ships... :rolleyes:
     
  3. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    true...my bad. do you know how many boats were in the area at the time? I would think a lot since the invasion was suspected to take place just north of there. i think someone brought this up earlier, there needed to be more u and e-boat production in Germany.
     
  4. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    true...my bad. do you know how many boats were in the area at the time? I would think a lot since the invasion was suspected to take place just north of there. i think someone brought this up earlier, there needed to be more u and e-boat production in Germany.
     
  5. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    I am not sure about E-boats production but I do know that U-boat production in 1944 was absolutely astonishing, with more than 40 submarines and 40 crews been delivered every month. The losses in the Atlantic, were almost 50-60% of that... :rolleyes:

    [ 22. October 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: General der Infanterie Friedrich H ]
     
  6. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    I'll check for Schnellboote production figs tomorrow but an excellent source would be www.prinzeugen.com and scroll down to Schnellboote link

    ~E
     
  7. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    40 a month? geez...you'd think they could spare some down south... :confused: thanks erich...I dont have a lot of time on my hands at the moment, so please just let me know when you have the time yourself.
     
  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    I've already done a little checking and am not getting far.........helps to have your own business Ike.

    more hopeful tomorrow or much later tonight.
     
  9. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    own business? what busines you in, erich? well I'm getting offline, so i'll check in tomorrow.
     
  10. De Vlaamse Leeuw

    De Vlaamse Leeuw Member

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    It's very difficult to tell this kind of things, but I suggest that you read the book "Disaster at D-Day" by Peter Tsouras.
     
  11. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    I wonder why the Germans didn't think of this :rolleyes:
    The truth is the Germans were building as many of these vessels as they could, however the Allies were sinking them at an even faster rate.
     
  12. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    you have a point...but from what I have just read in my D-Day book (referenced earlier) the amount of E-boats weren't the problem during D-day. At Utah beach more than a dozen E-boats were launched in an attempt to retaliate against the Allied navy. Like I said before, they destroyed the Svenner, but didn't dare to venture out any further than that. While they were sitting there wondering what to do next, they were shot at by another vessel, destroying one while the others got the hell out of there. [​IMG] ah yes, the courage of the skippers is overwhelming...
     
  13. Kulbertinov

    Kulbertinov Member

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    It has always been my opinion that Hitler should have left his Generals a bit more freedom with the forces.. Hitler may have been a genious in many aspects, but I do not regard him as a brilliant military leader myself.

    His choice to use the first jet (forget the name, I haven't read about WW2 stuff in some time now.. my apologies) as a bomber rather then a fighter was a terrible military decision.. had he used it as a fighter, he would have had air superiority because nothing the allies had could even match it's speed.. rather he used it as a bobmer, which traveled slower then the Allied fighters, and thus was not nearly as useful, although quicker then conventional bombers..

    Just one thing I remember I personally would have done differently [​IMG]
     
  14. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    Welcome to the Forums, JR. You have a good point, maybe Martin can help you with the name. Anyway, I'm sure we could start a thread called "If I Were Hitler I Would've" but we already have "The List" which is a list of Hitler's mistakes that lost him the war.
     
  15. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    The aircraft in question was the Me-262. I seem to remember that there may be some controversy or confusion over the Fuhrer-order ; will try to look it up later.
     
  16. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Welcome to the forums, Kulbertinov! Hope you enjoy yourself in here! ;)

    The matter about Me-262 was extensively discussed last year and we kind of came to the conclussion that it wouldn't have such a big impact on the course of Air War as has always being thought, mostly bhecause lack of fuel.

    About the 'Supreme War Lord' - as often called - there has always been a misconception too. He definately was NOT a military genious as he himself thought he was nor he wasn't as incompetent as many other claimed he was. Hitler gave his generals enough independence and supported them in Poland, Scandinavia and the West. In fact, he was the master tactical and strategical mind behind some of the brightest aspects of those campaigns - the use of paratroopers, gliders, commando-like raids, the use of fast war ships, etc. He was very innovative, flexible in some aspects and DID listen to subordinate's suggestions and had an incredible memory for tactical and technical details. And at least, had a much better strategic view than Rommel... :rolleyes:

    His decision to stand in front of Moscow prevented 1941 to become a 1812.

    The problem was that so many successes convinced him that himself and his Wehrmacht were invincible and could do anything and would always win... :rolleyes:
     
  17. Alpha_Cluster

    Alpha_Cluster Member

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    But it was Hitler that kept making them move the tanks up and down the eastern front so they were never where they were realy needed.
     
  18. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Welcome to the forums, Alpha! Hope you enjoy yourself here! ;)

    In response to your posts. Yes, it was Hitler the one who used to 'play' with Panzer Groups and later Panzer Armies in 1941 and 1942 campaigns, but he did so because otherwise, there wouldn't have been enough armoured forces to achieve the needed annihilation battles. But those orders and counter orders wasted precious time in more than one ocassion, though in others it worked perfectly fine ( e. g. Kiev battle).
     
  19. Kulbertinov

    Kulbertinov Member

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    Quick off topic, thanks for the welcome [​IMG] This seems like a great resource, and I am sure I can learn a lot from you guys [​IMG] Many thanks.


    About the fuel, that is probably true, I had not thought of that, but it could've still impacted the war a bit IMHO. And had the jet been used as a figheter, and been incredibly succesful, I am sure they would search high and low for fuel...

    Thanks for the name, I just remembered reading about it awhile back, ahh, I haven't studied WW2 much lately :-\ Time to remember things :p
     
  20. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Indeed, Kulbertinov. It would have impacted the war, but just a bit. The initial shock the Allied pilots suffered was a big blow, but they very soon learned how to exploit their own advantages. It would have been pretty much the same with more Me-262s. Their tactical impact would have been very important and much bigger than it in fact was, but it wasn't enough to change the tide on the Luftwaffe's favour. And even if the tide would have changed, it wasn't for too long.
     
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