Hi, first of all. I've got a question concerning SS. Can someone tell me why did they have to give a proof of their Germanic ancestry up to 1750? Is the date somehow special in German history? (Sorry if I put the thread in a wrong place)
welcome,see link..not sure date was significant,just had to prove 5 generations aryan back to satisfy joining as ss officer,other ranks of ss back to 1800.. GHDI - Document - Chapter
thanks , I knew that, but that doesn't answer the question WHY? why not 1700, 1600 or 1500... or even further back in time?
This is just a guess on my part, understand that first off. Is it possible that this date was chosen as the moment in time when the "Holy Roman Empire" had degraded from a great central government into the 300 independent German states? Could it be that this might be seen as the end of the First Reich? And as such a "good starting point" for the Third Reich?
it's possibly to tie the Third Reich to the King of Prussia, Frederick II The Great, who imposed restrictions on Jews living within his territories, which may have made the Nazi policies a bit more "appealing" to Germans... Google ectracts:- From Frederick II to Emancipation *Frederick II, the Great, enforced his father's policies even more rigorously. By his conquest of Silesia (1742) his rule extended over a sizable Jewish population; appreciating their economic importance he exempted them from his otherwise obnoxious Jewish legislation. In 1750 Frederick promulgated his Revidiertes Generalprivilegium und Reglement, prompted by the results of an inquiry which showed the number of privileged Jewish families in Prussia (excluding Silesia) in 1749 at 2,093, almost double the 1728 figure. The preamble stated that the law was intended to help both Christians and Jews, whose livelihood was being threatened by the increasing number of Jews. September 5, 1750 in History. Event: Decree issued in Paderborn Prussia allows for annual search of all Jewish homes for stolen or "doubtful" goods. I can find no other reasons why specifically 1750, no doubt more learned forumites will be able to give chapter and verse.
1750 is generally considered the starting point for the "Age of Enlightenment", a period of social and intellectual awareness throughout the civilized world. This era also provided the nexus for the Industrial Revolution. During this time there were population shifts and migration of Germans into Prussia (eastern Europe in General) and from countries in Eastern Europe to Germany. This population shift created a need for "citizenship" and thus began Birth Certificates/ Records of Birth/ Clerical Surveys and the need for the comon person to establish lineage. 1800 is the generally accepted end of the period as the Industrial Revolution was in full swing. I can only assume that Himmler chose these dates due to lack of official verifiable records prior to 1750 and the population shift that occured during the period. Brad
Around 1750-1800 (As the joining criteria put it), following the War of Austrian succession and the chaos of the Seven years war can arguably be said to be the point that Germany as we know it began to form as a unified state, rather than as the more disparate groupings previously found. It may not have been until 1871 that Germany proper was founded, but that mid/late 18th century date would make a sensible point to work from as the first flowering of a 'modern' Germany. (As a side-note It would appear that previous restrictions on Jews were lifted somewhat in this period). However, it seems as likely that it was just chosen as 150-200 years was a handy arbitrary figure. The 5 generations mentioned above would take most applicants back to roughly 1750-1800, as stated in the regulations? ~A
They had lots of dumb rules.. then again they were nazis.. so that may explain a lot! they also had a height rule which had to be over 6 feet tall to be eligible to join the SS Unless of course if your Sepp Dietrich, who comes in with a whopping 5 foot 6.. YouTube - 1941 Sepp Dietrich and the LSSAH it's funny to see Sepp in front of his troops. I believe that Sepp protested several times to Hitler regarding this Germanic ancestry law, Claiming the SS was losing out on excellent canidates. Suzie
Sorry I should have been more specific in that example ... I was referring to the Leibstandarte SS ... But I think the Germanic ancestry law applied to the all SS units but eventually these requirmens were laxed due to the need of more volunteers for the SS Suzie
WOnder if it is at all possible to show the church books before that time for all as there were huge wars in Europe and churches destroyed and burnt ( for instance Swedish Army with Finnish soldiers among )?? At least in Finland many churches and books in Karelia were lost in ww2 so the background of several families can never be checked if the people would like to know more.It could as well be something "useful" like when the marriages were put into books etc or since when it was guaranteed that you could have the info. Then again I believe the nazis did have some occult idea behind it all. Anyway, there must have been several people who got a nice amount of money making these charts in the nazi Germany...??
thanks for all the answers. I watched a documentary on eugenics and they said how Nazis explained blood stuff. after 5 generations all mixes of Aryan and no-Aryan blood are gone and only pure Aryan blood stays. ridiculous, but maybe that's the answer?
the occult is a strange thing,but bloodline would be seen to be pure once several generations back removed,so not so daft in a way...
Hello sniper1946, (1) http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/Himmlerspeeches.htm May 22, 1936. auf dem Brocken, Germany. Speech to Hitler Youth Leaders. (Text, no annotations) NARA, RG 242, T-175, Roll 89, Frames 1557-1594. (Photocopy) NARA, RG 242, T-580, Roll 37, Ordner 238 A. well, actually not Wiki’s and information from other sources in regards to an obligatory SS Aryan ancestry prove backdated to 1750 is somewhat incorrect, since the date 1750 is taken out of context. Himmler forwarded during his speech at the “Auf dem Brocken” on 22nd May 1936: Himmler explained that a continued prove for Aryan ancestry would be hindered due to the destruction of church recordings beyond 1648 due to the 30 years war. Starting off on Jan. 1929 every future member had to provide a three generation prove. From 1937 onward five generations prove had to be provided and from 1938 the date as of January 1800 was accepted as the obligatory mark for all SS members. Regards Kruska Hello sunny971, On October 1st 1929 with exception of war veterans (e.g. Sepp Dietrich) the minimum height requirement for SS members was set at 172cm for southern Germany, whilst for northern Germany 176cm was required. In 1934 the requirement for the LSSAH was set at 178cm. For “SS Junker schools” the height was set at 174cm, but then due to availability - dropped to 170cm from 1936 onward. There seems to have been a discrepancy between Himmler’s wet dreams ("The Gods of the new Germany will be the SS"..Himmler) and the reality facing him with those German Aryans inhabiting Grossdeutschland. Regards Kruska
I think there is a rather simple explanation. It has everything to do with traceability in the pre-computer age. Even today, how many people can actually trace their lineage back any more than five generations without extensive genealogical research by boffins in the field? Remember too, the SS were attempting to LIMIT the number of suitable candidates, not throw open the door to every Hans, Dicke, or Harry. This policy worked against them later, but when first imposed it was a suitable method of weeding out candidates before money was spent finding out whether they were physically able to cope with the training. I'm only basing this on practicality. Even in this modern age, few people have actual documentation past their great, great, great, Grandfather....unless of course they spend years and lots of money, which these candidates for the SS mostly did not have. Tracing your family history is a relatively modern phenomenon based on the proliferation of information we have available today, and it's increased freedom of access....
Its very true that many appently simple things and dates have a much deeper origin .Not always occult , but all very much stating some ancient germanic awareness . 1750 itself isnt a year thats particular mentioned in heimkunde books for a hidden nationalistic reason . 1750 would be too early for good accuracy in namenskunde , europeans had a habit of being named after the fathers firstname or your profession , for instance in dutch when your father was named Dirk and they named you Jan you woud be called Jan Dirkszoon , Jan-son-of Dirk . or Jan Dirkszoon Kuiper if the dad was a cooper etc etc . It's only when napoleon came in 1810 people were forced to choose and register the actual surname as we know it today . I think Kruska is right and the dates are taken a bit out of context to make the speech stronger ..
Hello Heinrich, now unlike you Dutch heathens and heretics, dropping of from the true believes - most Germans (or Bavarians) kept to the true and only faith of our mother the holy Roman church. Therefore the Church records till about the 30 years war are quite easy to track down on - displaying the Familyname as such. Regards Kruska
