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Winter War Fault of Finnish Politicians

Discussion in 'Winter and Continuation Wars' started by green slime, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Article in Swedish (from the Finnish National broadcaster's site):

    http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2014/11/28/finska-politiker-skyldiga-till-vinterkriget

    Translation to English by me.

    In Russia, the 75-year anniversary of the Winter War passes unnoticed. But at least the Russian historians continue to debate the war. A discussion that increasingly highlights Finland's guilt to the outbreak of war.

    In Russia, the Winter War, is known as "the Forgotten War" and "the Unknown War." Because in Soviet times, there was not a line about the Winter War in Soviet textbooks. It was not until the 90's that in Russia began to discuss what really happened between Finland and the USSR winter in 1939.

    In today's debate, many Russian historians still find it difficult to understand Finland's negative attitude to the proposals on border adjustments Soviet Union put forth in the negotiations in Moscow in autumn in 1939.
    – From Moscow's point of view, the ideal solution would have been if Finland had become the Soviet Union's ally. Then the war could have been avoided, believes Vladimir Baryshnikov, one of the most influential Russian historians of the Winter War.
    – The terms & conditions Soviet Union demanded in 1939 then became a reality in 1948 when the countries signed the Pact of Friendship, Cooperation and assistance.

    According Baryshnikov, Stalin was convinced that the two countries could agree on border adjustments.

    Another Russian historian Oleg Nazarov believes that the blame for the winter war should be sought from some Finnish politicians.
    Nazarov got this week, as the only Russian historian, to comment on the Winter War, on the state news agency Ria. Nazarov belongs to the "Zinoviev Club", a group of patriotic scientists whose motto is to provide a "fair" view of Russia.

    – Finland should never have been sitting still when Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in 1941, believes Nazarov. There were plenty in the Finnish political elite who sympathized with Hitler's Germany and were ready to cooperate with the Third Reich.

    – And it was these Finnish politicians, the same who made sure to torpedo the negotiations with the Soviet Union, which also carries the largest debt to the Winter War began, says Nazarov.

    The historian Oleg Nazarov also believe that Stalin had only two bad options to choose from autumn 1939. According to Nazarov, Stalin chose the right thing.

    – Had Stalin not have acted against Finland, Leningrad would have suffered an even harsher fate in 1941, believes Nazarov.

    In the Russian debate we hear more and more often claims that Finland did not act independently in Moscow negotiations, but that there was an outside, third party that affected Finland's decision.

    - There is reason to research more on the question of how much influence other countries had on Finland's activities, said Nazarov. Neither Germany, England or France was interested in the Soviet Union strengthening its positions in North Western Europe.

    - And when it came to the crunch wanted the Soviet cant wait to see which of the countries that make Finland to its satellite state, says historian Oleg Nazarov.
     
  2. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    To be blunt what ever i hear Russian state news reporting I tend to just always go in the opposite view, Only In Russia would they think giving poor quality land for high quality land fair.
     
  3. dude_really

    dude_really Doesn't Play Well With Others

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    is http://svenska.yle.fi
    sponsored by Putin ?
    What a biased narrow minded article..
     
  4. green slime

    green slime Member

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    What really cracked me up was "...the ideal solution would have been if Finland had become the Soviet Union's ally."

    The Soviet Union was not interested in allying itself with Finland. It was interested in bullying all the minor states surrounding its borders into compliance with its wishes.

    The invasion was not a punitive raid, nor did it set out to just take those territories it was demanding. You don't invade with 27 divisions, 630,000 men, because of a minor border issue. It is well known that the whole idea was to crush Finland as an independant state, which the existence of the Terijoki government proves.
     
  5. green slime

    green slime Member

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    No, it's the National Finnish broadcaster, reporting news from Russia; countries that are bordering Russia do tend to pay more attention to what is going on in Russia. They (the Russians) are getting back into their old habits of redacting and redressing history.
     
  6. Karjala

    Karjala Don Quijote

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    In that article YLE is reporting of the Russian views of the Winter War, which still (again) are very soviet in nature and of course full of bull*...

    Becoming a soviet "ally" in 1939 would have meant the same faith as with the Baltic - total annexation of Finland. The pact forced on Finland in 1948 was very different, thanks to the successful defense of the Finnish armed forces.

    Accepting all of the soviet demands (Finland was ready to yield a bit) in 1939 would have meant not only changing some "good" land to "bad", but leaving Finland defenseless and under the mercy of the soviets, since the Finnish defense lines would have been lost and the soviets would have had a military base close to the Finnish capital. The USSR had been preparing for an attack against Finland for already a year. Any "negotiations" were only theater, since the only goal was to annex Finland - with or without war.

    Prior to the Winter War Finland was Western and Nordic oriented. Nazies were mostly criticized, as Hitler himself complained. Of course after the Winter War help was desperately needed and since Germany was the only one willing and able to give it, the Finnish views changed.

    It's the old soviet twisted logic to reason the soviet attack in 1939 by the Finnish co-operation with Germany in 1941.Without the Winter War 1939-40 there wouldn't have been any Continuation War 1941-44 either. The Russians have only themselves to blame - which still seems to be for them too much to ask for.
     
  7. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

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    Adolf Putin's propaganda machine at work.
     
  8. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Revisionism at its worst.
     
  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    "Border adjustments" is a rather unique euphemism. Hadn't Hitler initiated some "border adjustments" the year before with Czechoslovakia?
     
  10. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    Herman Wouk made an insightful comment in The Winds of War, referring to the German propensity to blame other countries for getting themselves invaded by Germans. Apparently it would apply to Russia also.
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The secret deal part of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact sharing eastern Europe listed Finland as The USSR's property. Stalin wanted the area in Karelian isthmus which would have disabled any proper defence if the Red Army had attacked. Also there would be a Soviet naval base next to the Finnish capital from where the Red Army could start another offensive.

    No military or strategic interest By the Allied or Germany? How about the iron ore in northern Sweden. Everybody wanted it.

    Also on the day the Winter war started Otto-wille Kuusinen informed of the possible new communistic government that asked for help to have the power in Finland. Stalin considered the Kuusinen government the only true Finnish government to discuss the terms for Peace. Stalin refused Any discussions with other Finnish politicians.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  12. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    How long a time it takes to move nearly a million men along the Finnish border in 1939? A thousand kilometers. The Finns considered the negotiations were still going on with just a break as Stalin's puppet Molotov was getting mad we did not accept the terms which were already written in Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Stalin only made Molotov make it look like Finland did not accept the "peaceful" terms even though our government told they would not let any foreign forces to Finland ever. We also had a non-aggression pact with the USSR for years. Putin history lessons. First it was a minor clash, now a war that Finland started. We did not even have army clothing for all the men they fought in civil clothes with a military badge on their headgear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The Russians teach in schools today that the Winter War was a minor clash between our borders. If the Allied troops in 1939 had been allowed to join the defence in Finland the war of Barbarossa would have been different. Instead they were given orders to stay in northern Norway and wait. Why? Why send them north in the first place to "help Finland" if they never moved a muscle. The Kiruna Iron ore not Finland??
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Why did Molotov go to Berlin in December 1940 to meet Hitler and demand that the Soviets could attack Finland??? a Joke,perhaps. Hitler said "No" Because he had already planned Barbarossa almost ready and needed Lapland to capture Murmansk.
     

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