WW2 RAF Medal identification help please.

Hi there,

I am new to this forum, but I joined partly to get assistance with the identification of two medal ribbons from a 4 medal ribbon bar.

I have enclosed pictures as best as I have them.

I am wondering because I am about to purchase this uniform for the use in 1940's re-enactment ad don't want to have either,

a) Medals I don't know, can't explain, shouldn't be there,
or
b) Aren't real medals at all...

I have identified the middle two, or at least I can't find anything else that resembles them.

They go as follows :

Unknown - France & Germany Star - Defence Medal - Unknown

The only information I have on the uniform is as follows..
(Taken from sellers site)

JACKET HAS MEDAL RIBBON & ATC COLLAR BADGES.
WARRANT OFFICER’S BADGE ON EACH ARM

TROUSERS:

LABEL: UNIFORM MANS RAF NO 1 DRESS O.A., SIZE 33, J. COMPTON & WEBB LTD
A/78/CLO/28279/OT4A

Cap : has a label stating it is made in 1968, although the seller has informed me that the cap was purchased later, although it is a matching warrant officers cap.

Thank you all for your time.

Elbie

 

Hi

the one on the right looks like the 1939-45 war medal (pic below) - let me know if it isn't - your pic isn't so clear

still working on the other one

 

the one on the left best seems to match the 1939-45 star (pic below)

and you're right about the middle 2.

so as far as reenactment goes, i can't find for sure if they were issued before the end of the war, so they might not be strictly speaking correct.

edit; the only one I am not certain date of establishment of is the 1939-45 star, the others were issued starting in august 1945, so I believe the 39-45star would have been the same.

 

Thank you for such a quick reply, the moment i get the uniform, which I now know is a 1947 issue uniform, just as they changed from 4 buttons to 3, I will post a clearer picture.

I too was thinking that the last medal was the 1939-45 war medal but it looked almost pink and purple, rather than red and blue, but it's the only medal I can find close to it, as for the first medal being the 1939-45 star... not sure, as that picture shows the last band to be white, I originally thought that it was fading but the white looks too close to the white of the France and Germany star.

As I said, at the moment I don't have the uniform, but hopefully it should arrive by Wednesday.

As for the re-enactment, there are a few socials I intend to goto that theme it purely on 40's, so any date within the 10 years is ok, but for things like the Haworth 1940's weekend I would remove them. I will hopefully be able to find what medals were issued to my Grandfather, once the MOD release his service record, as he was a fairly private man on that respect.

Thank you for such a swift response

*EDIT Uniform may have changed in 1947 but looking possible that this is a 1950-60 post war issue

 

You're welcome

just looking at the rest - the cap badge is the queen Liz one, the WW2 version is a little flatter/shorter (see pic), but the cap looks fine, and the jacket looks right for all the pictures I've seen bar the button thing.

Not sure yet about the ATC collar dogs (they were worn by warrant officers so might fit, but obviously not RAF as such so may not fit the personas you want to represent).

 

Wow what a truly charming photograph - I hadn't noticed the cap badge before, but with the cap being a 1968 that makes perfect sense, will have to get round to changing that, or buying another cap as I don't like the idea of tampering with history, even if it is only 40 odd yrs worth.

Just noticed your comment about the ATC dogs, and that is something I have yet to look in to.
I have only recently started to look into all of this.

Thank you for all your help, it is truly welcome.

 

Whilst looking about on the internet I came across these 2 photos, of the ATC / ACF back in WWII

However there is a huge difference in the uniform.

This truly is turning into a wonderful mystery.


(Photos from :- WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums • View topic - 1940's ATC )

 

One thing to remember is that the jacket you are looking at is Number 1 dress (smart gear) whereas the ones in your ATC photos are a mixture of battledress and No 1s. Not sure if it was true back then but when I was a kid the cadets got all sorts of cheap items issued that weren't the same as the regular army, for instance missing lower pockets etc.

Also remember the officers and other ranks wore different stuff, warrant officers generally same as officers but not always. Also instructors etc. of an ATC unit could well have been regulars or ex regulars, perhaps either wounded or on secondment for other reasons.

Another issue is that the uniforms changed in design in the early part of the war especially as conscription geared up and to ease production, and quite often there would be mixtures of styles in units, even regular ones.

and to make it all even harder, especially officers and warrant officers would often buy their own uniforms or have them tailored.



probably best way to be authentic is to find a photo you like that you're sure is period, and try and match it as exactly as you can, then carry a copy with you in case anyone dares challenge your choices

 

Indeed No. 1 Dress, which as the photo shows isn't the case with those cadets
Being wartime an all, what with so many uniforms needed I fully understand this.

I was thinking that this uniform belonged to a person who served in WWII and then went on, either as you say, because he was wounded or seconded, into training the ATC.

This is the only reason I can come up with for the ATC collar tags.
This would also account for the medals shown on the uniform.

The information I have on my Grandfathers service is about as mysterious, but I do know that he was a Warrant Officer, I know he served in the RAF, but that is about it. I am waiting to hear back from my mother to apply, or give myself written permission to find his service record.

I would love to do as you stated,
"..find a photo you like that you're sure is period, and try and match it as exactly as you can, then carry a copy with you in case anyone dares challenge your choices"
Especially if i's one of my Grandfather.

Thank you for your help so far, I shall post any more information I find as soon as I get it.

 

hello Elbie and welcome to the forum ,

I can confirm that your ribbon bar has (from left to right) 1939-45 star, France & Germany Star, Defence medal, War medal.

nice uniform there.

 

Hi Andy, thank you. It is nice to be here, such a treasure trove of information and memories.

Thank you for confirming the medal bar, and I'm glad you think that of the uniform. Now to find out the true history behind the uniform. Should arrive by Wednesday... Hopefully!

I have a Lindy hop 1920's - 1950's social dance to go to, and I really wish to not only look the part but feel it too.