STAUFFENBERG-WHAT WAS HE?

A little belated answer on the topic:

First of all, I disagree strictly with Erich H. Possibly, there would have been a civil war; but still there would have been much less fatalties in Germany, and the war would have ended quite a lot sooner.

Secondly, I don't call Stauffenberg a hero. Even though nobody can force him to be a suicide bomber, he was TOO concerned of saving his own ass. If he had stayed until 3 min before the detonation, he could have managed to close the windows again which had been opened in his absence, and he would have avoided his bag getting removed from Hitler. He subordinated his own livesaving to the success of the mission, even though success of the mission was all too essential for saving his life (with Hitler dead, quite likely nobody would have had time to chase the culprits.

Stauffenberg was too yellow - he was the wrong man for the job. So I can't call him a hero.

 

Just wondering about the views of the newer members...?

 

How many Germans that people now worship as war heroes raised not a finger aganst Hitler? At
least Stauffenberg did something.

I once read an old proverb that went something like this: "No matter how far down the wrong path you have gone, turn back". Stauffenberg may have supported a madman initially, but he later tried to fix Germany's problem. In my opinion, he's a hero, much more of a hero than can be said for thousands of other Germans with similar opportunity and no inclination to do the same.

 

I think he was good. He realized hitler was evil, and tried to kill him so the bloody war could end.

 

Again as we have many new members- opinions on Stauffenberg?

 

Although Stauffenberg had the right intention, I think he did more harm than good. A lot of innocent Germans were killed because there were suspected ties between them and the plot.

 

Good point, the only real thing to come out of the July Plot was that it showed the rest of the world not all Germans were Nazis.

 

He was neither a coward nor a great hero. He was technically a traitor but one man's traitor is another's patriot and hero. If he had succeeded and everything turned out right he would have been a hero. But he didn't succeed and so he was a traitor and the vast majority of Germans at the time saw it that way. Many may have secretly wished he would have succeeded but they recognized the treason in his actions.

As to what would have happened if he had killed Hitler. Suddenly Hitler becomes a martyr and in later years it would be far harder to pin as much blame on Hitler for Germany's ultimate defeat and the Holocaust. Far more Germans today would think that Hitler, if he had survived, could have pulled another miracle out of his hat and saved the Reich. As for at the time the plot would have failed in the end because there were many, many fanatic Nazis in positions of power and the vast majority of the officers and police forces would have been completely opposed to the plotters. Goring and Himmler will jockey for power but only after completely snuffing out the plotters and dealing with them little different than how Hitler did deal with them. Afterwards Goring will become successor but only by giving Himmler extensive powers and Himmler will be the real power in the land. The war will continue and Germany will lose, perhaps a little quicker. Goring would ultimately surrender; he was a pragmatist and knew the war was lost. Himmler too, would likely have surrendered. Goebbels; can't be sure of what would have happened to him. I think a lot of his desire for the dramatic death he ultimately arranged for himself and his family was due to wanting to follow Hitler. With time after his death for the spell of the Fuhrer on him to wear away I think it possible he would not have killed himself or at least would not have arranged his family's death.

I don't buy the idea that there would have been a civil war in Germany after Hitler's death; there were too few people in Germany who would have supported the plotters. Goring would have assumed power over a weakened Germany and quite quickly it would have become apparent that Germany was doomed. Then Goring would have started negotiating. I doubt he would have ever accepted unconditional surrender while he was still in power but you never know. Stauffenberg would be considered a traitor while Nazi Germany was still in existence and given the fact that Hitler's death didn't save Germany from ultimate defeat he would be looked on less favorably than he is today. Ironic, isn't it?

 

Benedict Armold was both a hero and a traitor, and to both sides. He started as an American hero and a British traitor, and became the opposite. Stauffenberg is what he is. Traitor to some and hero to others. He was a man with strong feelings of right and wrong, in a world that was upside down. What would have happened with Hitler's death, then or earlier, is full of what-ifs that could go any which way. Without the insanity of Hitler's leadership, those remaining could have tried to sue for peace, or they could have fought back stronger and longer.

 

" friends say that in the days leading up to July 20, 1944, Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg liked to recrite Stefan George´s poem " The Antichrist"."

From "Plotting Hitler´s death" by J Fest

The Lord of the Flies is expanding his Reich;
All treasures, all blessings are swelling his might ...
Down, down with the handful who doubt him!

Cheer loudest, you dupes of the ambush of hell:
What's left of life-essence, you squander its spell
And only on doomsday feel paupered.


You'll hang out your tongues, but the trough has been drained;
You'll panic like cattle whose farm is ablaze ...
And dreadful the blast of the trumpet.

German poet Stefan George is sullied by Nazi associations | Review | guardian.co.uk Books

 

If Hitler had died? did the plotters have a viable successor lined up? was anybody of suitable stature involved in the plot?

sorry, i know the the general outline but not the specifics.

 

I would have believed that the person to take over Hitlers role would have been stauffenberg since he was the one who had been the head of all the planning. I even read in a book about Valkyrie that it would have been more likely to have been stuffs berg who would have been the successor. Despite his physical handicaps, I think that he would have still taken over as the leader if butler had died. That's my theory.

 

much thanks to the Forum for allowing us to discuss popular subjects....ok, I think he was beyond brave, to put his family/life with his family at risk!! what greater sacrifice could there be??

 

The plan for the next government was for example on the wikipedia page for July 20th plot

 

The plotters gave up too easily. They had captured the important men, ss leaders and could use telegram to send orders. Now they simply have up because Hitler did not Die.

After the explosion Stauffenberg managed to escape although the camp was ordered totally shut. The guard was given By Himmler the order to let Stauffenberg go. Interesting...