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Admitting guilt..

Discussion in 'War in the Pacific' started by T.TASKER, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    Perhaps we should point out that there has been apologies made but there has been controversy about whether or not it was enough......but you can read for your self the entire wiki....Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia however for me this is an apology: "Japanese governments have officially recognised the suffering which the Japanese military caused, and numerous apologies have been issued by the Japanese government. For example, Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama, in August 1995, stated that Japan "through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations", and he expressed his "feelings of deep remorse" and stated his "heartfelt apology". Also, on September 29, 1972, Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka stated: "[t]he Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious damage that Japan caused in the past to the Chinese people through war, and deeply reproaches itself."[SUP][103][/SUP] " Of course there are a large number who find this to be inadequate but as I have stated I look at how they work with our country's needs today and have found them to be a good friend and ally to our interests abroad. I will also point out that there was a long period of economic fear that Japan would soon own us .........which was a false fear and they maintained their friendliness throughout that period of American disenchantment with the trade relations. Today......except by us historians, this trade fear is pretty much forgotten. You will find that many want the Japanese to "fall to their knees" to make apology and I will point out that even in our country many religious views consider this an abasement only required by deity so it is unacceptable in apology to another when it is between mankind. Sorry if I have mis-handled the quotes but I am not skilled at my pugilistic command of creating appropriate texts and quotes as my word-processing was all learned in the "old" school and am unable to appropriately update the skills.........as an old mechanic wrench jerker I was lucky to make the fingers hit the keyboard once again with just some of the previous pugilistic capabilities.
     
  2. scipio

    scipio Member

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    To be honest I am not very impressed with apologies. Everyone seems to be apologising these days.

    Far more practical would be to see that Japan compensates (probably too late now) all ex-POWs and Chinese\Korean citizens for inhuman treatment.

    I beleive that the maximum compensation awarded to holocaust victims by Germany was US $8000 - not much but a least a recognition.


    If Japanese history books recognised in full their War Crimes it would also be far more meaningful than a cheap apology.

    About 20 years ago I was given a present by a Japanese Compnay - a book entitled "Facts about Japan" - I read the section on WW2 where there was no mention of any atrocity but plenty about the atomic bomb.

    Somehow they seem to have persuaded themselves that they are the victim.
     
  3. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    I am willing to live without proper apologies from the Japanese. I think the main problem here. Is the out right denial of certain events. In recent years I remember the denial of the Rape of Nanking by Japanese lawmakers as well as the Prime Ministers denial of forced slavery of Korean comfort women.
     
  4. Tristan Scott

    Tristan Scott Member

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    I'm with Scipio and Mike. I don't care about the apology, just an admission of what they did. There are still many records that are not seeing the light of day. That is really an unacceptable situation. I think the world has a right to know not only what was being ordered by whom during the war, but what the heck was going on ater the war.
     
  5. karenlalaniz

    karenlalaniz Member

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    My father, a WWII veteran, and I have had this conversation. He says that we always speak of "atrocities" as it refers to the Japanese. But we never speak of our own. He said he saw plenty of atrocities inflicted BY the U.S. It's a very complicated subject. Terrible things are done in war. It's not as simple as good guys and bad guys. Each can turn into the other, given the right (wrong?) situation.

    My son is a high school student and they are studying U.S. history right now. I asked him if he learns about the positive as well as negative things done by our own soldiers. He does not. That's sad to me. We need to do a better job of educating our young to know that given a set of circumstances, we are all capable of inflicting atrocities. War is messy and complicated. What civilians view as black and white, is actually many shades of gray.
     
  6. Marmat

    Marmat Member

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  7. The Road to Damascus

    The Road to Damascus recruit

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    I know there was a big deal about a few years back about "comfort women" used for the Japanese troops "morale". There was like 100,000 or more women involved of all nationalities. I am pretty sure they petitioned for an apology and each woman got a written apology and compensation from the Japanese Government.
     
  8. Tristan Scott

    Tristan Scott Member

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    Of course you're right there were atrocities on both sides, but I think it is essential to understand that American atrocities towards the Japanese were somewhat isolated incidents that were generally not sanctioned by the command structure. On the other hand Japanese atrocities were not isolated incidents, in fact cases where Japanese treated their prisoners with any decency at all were considered isolated incidents. In many cases Japanese atrocities were ordered form the highest levels of command.

    It's not black and white, but to say there were atrocities on both sides and leave it at that is simply not accurate.
     
  9. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I think atrocities may be a complicated issue. All atrocities are atrocities...but those that are sanctioned by the state or leadership and carried out as such differ from the heat of battle or heat of the moment...Planned atrocities are a little different from instant revenge or loss of humanity.
     
  10. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    It is shame that Hiroshima/Nagasaki mourning ceremonies attract more compassion worldwide than any other similar event devoted to victims of Japanese aggression at the Far East. At the same time Japan honors convicted A-class war criminals - officially. Young Japanese practice their singing in a park with a Sugamo prison memorial stone, where war criminals were hanged. Not only that they refuse to admit and apology – they are proud of their war crimes.
     
  11. tomflorida

    tomflorida Member

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    I respectfully disagree. I don't think the crimes that some US soldiers committed can be mentioned in the same discussion as the Japanese atrocoties. Did we forget millions tortured, killed, starved, raped by the Japanese. Cause I do not remeber that being a part of the US Army's plan. Let me tell you what is sad. Its sad just how little our children are educated about the good the US has done for the world. How many millions we have saved and fought for. How many nations we rebuild and paid for with blood. I won't even mention the financial cost. I wonder what S. Korea, Phillipines and Indo Pacific would be today if Pearl never happaned.
     
  12. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

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    Well, in today's PC society, you're not really supposed to feel happy unless you're feeling guilty about something.
     
  13. tomflorida

    tomflorida Member

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    Heck, in fact I'm kind of ticked off by so many Americans not being proud of what this great nation and armed forces have done for the prosperity of the world. No other nation even comes close. I was born in a communist nation and could not be more proud of America.
     
  14. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I would argue that it is important to do so for a number of reasons:
    1) The contrast between a few crimes commited by individuals vs those instituded, ordered, and commended by a whole society.
    2) It's important when studying history to promote an understanding of it and sweeping such things under the rug does not do so.
    3) It defuses the arguments of those revisionist that try to tar both sides with the same brush. Their attempts to equate the beavior of a few GI's to that of a whole society are more likely to fail if their audiance is familiar with the real situation.
    This is a bit of a straw man though isn't it? None that I've seen have argued so.
     
  15. archaeologist5

    archaeologist5 recruit

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    Just so you know, Japan has apologized to Korea and sent money to them in the past. here is a link where the issue with the comfort women are being discussed

    Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Statue of Comfort Woman Erected Outside of Japanese Embassy

    It is long and in those pages are the links to the Japanese apology though I do not know exactly which one. I do not think apologies are necessary especially if they are demanded. I do not like those who did not do the 'crime' apologizing for something they did not do and I certainly would not like it if someone apologized for me when I was not apologetic.

    I see no purpose for any apologies that take place now-a-days as it is just a fad and they really mean nothing. Just a PC attempt to feel good about someone else even though you still hate them after they apologize and never forget their 'sins'. Part of the apology process is for the receiver to sweep the 'sin' away and not hold it over the heads of those who apologized and I rarely see that happen.
     
  16. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Thanks for the update, I didn't know about the statue.
     
  17. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    But then unless you are the agrieved party you have no right to speak for the agrieved. Its their and only their feelings on the subject of apologies that matter, not ours.
     
  18. greglewis

    greglewis Member

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    The 'Suez Maru' atrocity is one event for which there remains a campaign for an apology from the Japanese government.
    There were 548 prisoners on board the hellship ‘Suez Maru’ which was torpedoed by US submarine ‘Bonefish’ on November 29, 1943, north of Bali.
    Many had survived the torpedo attack but were subsequently machine-gunned in the water by the Japanese. There were no survivors.
    There is a book about the event called ‘The Suez Maru Atrocity – Justice Denied’, by Allan Jones, who is campaigning for an apology. Mr Jones’ father Lewis died on the ‘Suez Maru’.


    British families of Second World War PoWs demand massacre apology - Telegraph
     
  19. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    A Darwin news story last week. Inpex is building a mega gas plant here in Darwin (worth 30b!) for a territory of 230 thousand people thats sum bickies! Personally im against it, due to the environmental damage and the increased price of everything.
    The Japanese flew to Darwin to make the announcement...they also acknowlegded the war...
    A SENIOR Japanese minister used the Inpex press conference to offer his "heartfelt apology" for the bombing of Darwin.
    Japan's Senior Vice-Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry Tadahiro Matsushita concluded his speech by acknowledging the upcoming 70th anniversary of the event.
    "During a certain period in the not-too-distant past, Japan caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries," Mr Matsushita said.
    "Taking this opportunity I would like to express my feelings of deep remorse and state my heartfelt apology."

    Tremendous damage and suffering...i think that is calling a spade a spade...Good on them.
     
  20. bomajoe

    bomajoe recruit

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    Just wanted to give a little insight about the feelings of a common Japanese citizen. I know this thread was about governmental apologies, but I wanted to add a few comments about things I have learned from my wife, who is Japanese. I know she is only one individual and doesn't represent the beliefs or feelings of a whole nation, but I do think it represents a significant portion of the population. The first few years of my marriage I tried to tip-toe around any subject relating to WWII. This was kind of difficult since studying the history is one of my hobbies.

    One day I finally broached the subject of what her feelings were towards the war. I was surprised when she told me that she was extremely grateful that Japan had lost the war. She believes the country is much better off being a peaceful country as opposed to an aggressive one like it had been. She may not understand the depths of atrocities that occurred during that period, but I do believe that she was taught that Japan caused a lot of harm to it's neighbors in school.

    One other point I'd like to make is that culturally, the Japanese people have a hard time expressing their feelings. That is something else I learned from my wife. She told me that she doesn't remember any time where a member of her family said that they loved each other. I'm not trying to make excuses for a lack of apologies, I just wanted to mention it to help reinforce that all cultures aren't the same and they may not realize how important an apology is to a westerner.
     

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