Common Sense may Sink Obamacare

I do know taxes are ridiculously high in Germany. However it IS possible to choose private insurance and get a better standard of care than those on the public option, so the German system is less socialist than that envisioned by the powers that be in Washington.

I don't know if ERs refuse treatment. I was never an illegal going to the hospital.

 

That's a very short leap. However, Obama is not a national socialist. He's just a plain old socialist.

 

What does being free to chose private insurance have to do with illegal immigrants getting or being refused ER treatment in Germany? That is illegal in America, and was my question, apparently you don't know the answer even though you live in Germany according to your profile.

 

Clint, I took it that your purpose of bringing up the fact there are a lot of illegals in Germany with some kind of access to hospitals was to refute my statement that such a system is unsustainable. If that was not your purpose I'm sorry I misunderstood.

But I'm not defending the German system as some kind of model, just pointing out that it is not single payer, which I believe is the real (and previously stated) goal of the Obama Administration even though they deny it at the moment.

And I really don't know how illegals get health care in Germany even though I live here. It's not something I'm exposed to and never went to the trouble to research it.

 

Single payer, is a bone of contention. But not included in the main bipartisan bill being crafted in the Finance Committee. Obama's administration hasn't put forward any plan really, he and they are waiting for the Congress (which holds the power) to put a reform bill on his desk to either approve or veto.

The Presidency doesn't "craft bills", that office proposes and Congress disposes. He has the final say as to it becoming law, and then the Supreme Court has an over-ride right if the bill/law can be shown to be "unconstitutional".

That there are illegals in Germany isn't the question either. In America it is illegal to NOT treat illegal immigrants in an ER, and this without asking about their status. That they will NOT be included in the health care reform is/was my point. They are specifically excluded from the bill, but would most likely still be treated in ER rooms at any case. Of the estimated 12 million in the US, slightly less than half do have health care coverage through employers actually. So they (those with a plan) will most likely remain covered as they have been.

Until some solid, concrete bill makes its appearance and is debated openly in the Congress and sent to the President, all of this is just pointless anyway. We don't know what is in or what is out, yet. Why get our American panties in a knot over a "maybe this, or maybe that?"

 

So are they covered or not? Something smells fecal about this. They are excluded from the bill but still get health care through illegal employment or by taxpayers paying for it. Aren't they supposed to be fixing the system? How is an employer able to buy health insurance for someone they are breaking the law by employing anyway? That makes a lot of sense.

BTW, nobody's talking about letting somebody die on the street because they can't use the ER. We are talking about treatment for non-life threatening conditions.

Do you REALLY expect that to happen? You mean like the "honest" and "open" debate that happened with the Obama stimulus bill?

 

Nobody knows yet what the final bill will be. They (illegals) are excluded from one bill that I know of (House bill) as per coverage, but still would be allowed care in ERs as is the case now. Then there is another weird law which allows illegal aliens without their green cards to pay both Social Security and income tax without putting themselves in danger of being deported (don't ask me how that works), they do this so that they may have a "leg up" on their naturalization process if/when they choose to do the deed.

Those who are covered by their employers are covered in group plans, not by name, nationality, or status. Just a group plan the employer pays for. It makes no sense, and some (few) employers have been caught doing that and fined. It hasn't stopped the practice however. Illegal aliens are also eligible for flu-shots, and other immunizations without charge or investigation. That however is not a bad idea since it controls communicable diseases. This whole problem is why this is taking longer than the stimulus bill, or the Bush TARP plan which bailed out the financial system to a degree.

This whole thing is a bag of snakes, and even though something will probably be done in the end, it is going to take a great deal more time. I'm guessing that no bill hits Obama's desk before the Christmas break. Not a chance in hell before the Thanksgiving break. The Congress has more breaks than sessions at this time of year.

 

Ok urqh, I can live with that. Never cared that much for Palin anyway. Hopefully her resignation of her gubernatorial position in Alaska will finish her political career, at least at the national level.

Politicians should expect the mudslinging and name-calling when they get on the soapbox. It comes with the territory, and not one of them are innocent of such cheesey tactics themselves anyway. I'm not really a fan of politicians anyway, so they get what they deserve.

 

Amen!

 

A difficult discussion. I'm not going to say we do it best. We dont. All no matter what circumstances should get initial life saving treatment. Thats common human decency. I do accept there are circumstances where you cannot allow a free for all...And apparantly we over here on paper at least are not supposed to. I do know some are sent home whilst dyiing and they make the news stories..The answer? I havent got one. The System on the whole works here. We also have a profitable private system. The medical insurance insustry and drugs industries many from America still make massive profits here from the Nhs and thus me...So they do not dissapear and are working more than profitablly within the system

 

So y'all have a hybrid system, NHS and a private system? I wasn't aware of that.

No, there are no perfect systems, but everyone should have the right to medical care as you say. No problem there. Something sort of like the military medical system for those without the means to have private medical insurance. There are millions out there that work in the "mom & pop" operations that have nothing, or who work part-time, or the full-time students, and the dancing girls at the strip joints and such. All need coverage.

 

Why start now Miguel? you've never given me a proper response to anything yet. Why break the trend and try to come up with something that will be easily torn to shreads? Im still awaiting your educated (or lack of) hypothesis about the healthcare plan and how good it allegedly is supposed to be for us Americans-and NO-im not accusing you of being one.

Good day.

 

I'm back from my hollidays and not even bothering. You keep your tainted uneducated views and I'll keep my facts for myself. You really want to start trouble don't you? Why pick a post with over a month now and start jabbering about it? I don't have to put up with the likes of you and if you search my posts, they're all based on facts which I search. You say you don't believe in corporate media and I call you a liar. You're the perfect steriotype of a "media believer" not once have I seen you give an opinion based on facts regarding Health care or immigration.
Blah why waste my time and yours? Just don't drag me into these subjects.