DDay - at Night!

So I'm reading 'The Bedford Boys' and have recently gotten to the part where they've landed on Omaha beach as the first wave of D-Day, June 6th. As we all know, the bombers all missed their mark and killed more cows then anything, so there were no craters on the beaches to speak of for cover. Also, the Naval Bombardment wasn't very effective either, and the Rockets that were fired apparently landed well short, in the Ocean, which didn't help anyones morale. It did give the Germans a nice wake up call and they were well prepared for the incoming troops (and not shaken up as expected, or as green/incompetent as expected).

At any rate, in the book, it mentions that a lot of the Generals were opposed to the plan and thought that it would be a murder-hole. One -I forget who- suggested that attacking in Daylight was an extremely bad idea and suggested a night-time landing instead. Which brings me to my question:

What if...the Normandy landings had taken place on the night of June 5th, instead of the morning of June 6th?

Personally, I think that it might have worked with better results and fewer casualties. Saying that they landed at low-tide during the night, I imagine many of them would have made it ashore and to the Seawall before the Germans knew they were there. In the dead of night (it was cloudy, so the moon wouldn't have helped the Germans) I don't think the Germans would realise how many troops there were, esepcially if they had just been bombed by the Bombers (as a 'typical' nightly event) as it wouldn't have seemed out of the ordinary. Likewise, Mortar and MG fire would have been sporadic and inaccurate as they couldn't see who they were shooting, and i'd imagine that Allies would have been able to reach the bluffs etc with light casualties.

Anyone else care to share some thoughts?

 

I have read of that opinion but some questions still come up.

Even with the benefit of day light the allies had trouble landing troops on the right beaches. Night time would have add to the cluster f. Would they have even managed to get one company ashore intact as a unit or just a lot of scatter units?

HP

 

The germans would have just lit the place up and loads would have still died.
Also they wouldnt have had any air support.I certainly dont see them getting off the beach any quicker.
My opinion is it would have been a disaster.

 

i dont think it would be a good idea, ......in this case what happens to the airbourne drops? now they drop in daylight (of june 5th) .......you will end up with many more para casualties. (you might think the drops might be more accurate but so too will the german flack. Also if the paratroopers drop in the day (most be morning to give them enough time to complete their objectives) the germans will also be able to figure out what exactly is happening, much quicker (because it's still daylight).....and in that case the Panzer Reserves might be 'let loose" early then they were.

So now you have the landings, perhaps going to plan at night (i doubt it, as it is very had to organise landings at night).......but come sunrise, they can look forward to plenty of german armor.......plus the fact the allies would have very little armor/ guns themselves ashore by the morning of june 6th.

 

Nope, I disagree. The para-drops would happen at the same time, if not a few hours earlier, as due to the confusion it would be hard to assemble some sort of resistance until the morning as it takes hours to figure out what exactly is going on.

 

But wasn't the weather break only good for a one short shot amphibious beaching as per tide, weather, and moonlight (for the paras). The seas wouldn't have bothered the paratroops, but it would have ruined the amphibious work.

 

I'm with you on this one. The landings were an organisational nightmare as it was, and while there were some shortcomings in the artillery/air prep it still did some good. Landing at night makes all these problems much worse, while the Germans can still pop off illumination round and see enough to shoot by - after all, they know exactly where the beach is and can see nice silhouettes against the surf.

Yes, if I understand the tide thing right they would have had a window 12 hours earlier (which would be at 1830 on the 5th) or later (1830 on 6th). If that's correct then doing it with the sun below the horizon wouldn't be feasible without shifting the date a lot, which as you say then screws up the other two factors. I think it's safe to say that Eisenhower's staff gave enough thought to this that even with hindsight and the intarwebs, it's tough to improve on their work

 

The thnig to remember is that Overlord was a multi faceted operation and the needs of both the airborne and infantry had to be met. There were certain objectives that the Airborne had to accomplish prior to the landings, and just after the landings that would allow the Amphibious groups to travel inland from the beach.

If the Amphibious phase of the operation were to take place at night, that means the Airborne phase would have had to taken place during daylight or on the previous night. Chances are it would have taken away any advantage suprise would have afforded.

That's not even taking into account the poor weather, on the objective, on the previous night. It would be tough to imagine coordinating LSTs and other support vessels in a confined space, like the English Channel, and getting them positioned on a specific area. It would be like parking your car with a pillow case on your head.

 

Can you imagine the added difficulties a night landing would involve !!!!
Even climbing down the netting to the landing craft would be a near impossibilty.

 

It would have been a perhaps simple process of shooting flares into the sky over the ocean and and shooting the troops as they struggle in the dark.

 

I think it would have created to much confusion. While Omaha Beach was a bloody death trap and nearly abandoned (wasn't the third and fourth wave sent to Utah instead?) it was still the most heavily defended of all the beaches with the most experienced German division on D-Day in the area. It was nothing short of absolute desire to live that helped them overcome the obstacles presented. I question if it was made at night if both Omaha and Gold would have failed due to the additional confusion brought upon the overall operation.

 

[QUOTE=formerjughead;404647]The thnig to remember is that Overlord was a multi faceted operation and the needs of both the airborne and infantry had to be met. [/QUOTE]

This reminder confirms of it's delicate plan, and how important both the airborne and infantry had to link together to accomplish the ultimate goal. I disagree with the night attck.

Mark

 

Some did land at night. Paratroopers, the "unsung heroes who were sort of sung of" were disorganized, underarmed, and DEFINATELY not equipped to take on the panzer divisions held in reserve that some ran in to.

 

I don't think that would of been a good idea, I read somewhere that American beach landings owe a lot to the use of naval gunfire I assume it would be a lot trickier to spot machine gun nests in the dark , but then again you would see the tracer bullets. But I think it would be a little tricky trying to direct fire from Naval guns in the dark specially since targets would be harder to pick.

 

they landed at night, missed drop zones, had scattered units and in many cases lost their weapons and other equipment. And you know what? they still got the job done, well done gents.

 

Loading landing craft at night is not a near impossibility. I've been there (retired USMC) & while more difficult proper training makes it practical. If you dig into the descriptions from US and British soldiers you will find the early landing waves of most amphibious invasions were loaded from the transport ships into the landing craft long before dawn. For the intial assualt at Normandy the loading from the transports started around 0400 two hours before dawn.

Navigation to the beach is the trickier task. Even in daylight with good visability the boat groups frequently miss their targets. The only method practical in WWII I am aware of is to have some of the guide boats post as navigation aids along the routes to the beaches, and send pathfinders ashore early with colored signal lamps, colored smoke, flares... The latter only works where the beach is not well guarded.

Operation Shingle, the landing at Anzio had the initial waves cross the beach at night. The amphibious transports dropped anchor shortly after midnight, the preliminary bombardment started at 01:50 & lasted about five minutes, the various battalions in the first wave recorded landing a few minutes after 02:00. In this case "scout boats" had reached the shore before the bombardment and set out signal lamps. This reduced the confusion and navigation errors. It was aided by the lack of beach side defenders. The Germans had sentries posted on the beaches, but the infantry battalions were not given the alarm until it was far too late.

As I understand it dawn on this date, 22 January, came shortly before 08:00. So, there were nearly six hours of night after the first battalions landed on the beach.

Operation Husky was similar, with the first wave of landing craft leaving the assembly points and starting the 'run in' to shore at 02:00. The beaches were crossed by the lead battalions shortly after 03:00, or over three hours before dawn on 10 July.