Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Dumb Question: Why fighter aircraft?

Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by the_diego, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,610
    Likes Received:
    774
    the mosquito was a great plane.
    able to dart in and out.
    hitler ordered an equivalent that failed miserably.
     
  2. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    673
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    Herr Pointer, a bit of possible trivia to cheer you up. Having heard the expression "The whole nine yards" I found a source years ago. It was supposed to be the length of the cartridge belt on a Spitfire. Given the approximate span of a Spitfire's wings, roughly 38 feet, many Marks, what, that would be hard to do given the guns are set outward on the elliptical wing. A 27-foot belt would have to rotate over a roller and run back. I still think it short. Somewhere, Len Deighton's "Fighter" perhaps, I read the Hurricane-Spitfires had about 14 seconds on the trigger using the .303's. I think an Ammo box or drum sounds better but would carry less capacity. Has is that for a post nobody probably wanted????

    Poppy, did not the Mosquito have a significantly lower loss rate than most fighter-bombers?
     
  3. Kendell

    Kendell New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello All, I am researching my Uncle's service as a P51B pilot in WW2. A report filed by the War Department states the he was engaged in an operational mission flying "Angus white 2". What is the meaning of the acronym "Angus white 2"? His wingman reports flying "Angus white 3". Thank you.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    And over 800 pounds total.
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    No, the ammo was held in boxes.
     
  6. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    673
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    Thanks, there goes that myth, now whole 9 yards must be football related, well the US version of it anyway!
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    If that was the total length of the belts, then it would stand. But for "the pros from Dover", how many rounds did a Spit. carry per gun? I know it was less than a minute per gun, right?
     
  8. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    My memory says about 12 seconds...it could probably hold a couple of seconds more...but 12 is the number I remember.
     
  9. harolds

    harolds Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    301
    If MY memory is correct, they were trained to fire no more than 3 seconds and then stop and assess their results.
     
  10. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Ah, something wiki this way comes:
    Armament

    • Guns:
      • A wing
        • 8 × .303 in Browning Mk II* machine guns (350 rounds per gun)
      • B wing
        • 2 × 20 mm Hispano Mk II (60 rounds per gun)
        • 4 × .303 in Browning Mk II* machine guns (350 rounds per gun)
      • C wing
        • 4 × 20 mm Hispano Mk II cannon (120 rounds per gun)
      • C wing (Alt.)
        • 2 × 20 mm Hispano Mk II (120 rounds per gun)
        • 4 × .303 in Browning Mk II* machine guns (350 rounds per gun)
      • E wing
        • 2 × 20 mm Hispano Mk II cannon (120 rounds per gun)
        • 2 × .50 in M2 Browning machine guns (250 rounds per gun)
     
  11. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Ye
    Yep 2-3 seconds or you will quickly have nothing left...unless the target is filling your screen of course...then just let them have it.
     
  12. harolds

    harolds Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    301
    OK, using the A wing, the 303 Brownings were rated at 800rpm. If they had 350 rounds each, my calculations say that they would have 26.4 seconds of firing time.
     
  13. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Some answers:
    "The 'B' wing replaced four machine guns with two Hispano 20mm cannon, firing at about 600rpm (but throwing explosive shells, so much more lethal). Originally the cannon were fed from 60-round drums giving six seconds of firing time, but this was quickly changed to a 120-round belt feed - so you had ~12 seconds total with everything firing, with a few seconds more of four machine guns alone."

    "A Spitfire MKI and II had eight (8) Browning .303 machine guns, each with 300 rounds and a rate of fire, when sustained, at 1,150 rounds per minute. A total weight of 2,400 rounds was carried. Each gun delivered about 19 rounds per second, so 152 rounds per second total.
     
  14. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Somebody's going to the Spit shot out of them.
     
  15. mcoffee

    mcoffee Son-of-a-Gun(ner)

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    319
    "Angus White" would have been the radio call sign of the day for a particular flight of 4 aircraft. Angus White 2 would be the wing position off the flight leader (Angus White 1). Angus White 3 would be the 2nd element leader and Angus White 4 would be on his wing.
     
  16. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    528
    I've heard "the whole nine yards" meaning the belted .50-caliber on American fighters. Don't know if it's true, but a 400-round belt would be about nine yards long.
     
  17. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    528
    So "Angus" would be the squadron call sign for the day and "Angus White", "Angus Blue" etc. flights, 3-4 in a squadron?
     
  18. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    “The 350-round belt of 0.50in used in the inboard guns on each side of the M2 .50 gun system of the P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt (four guns on the six-gun P-51, six guns on the 8-gun P-47), was exactly 27 feet, or 9 yards, in length when fully assembled.
     
  19. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    US typically flew the "finger four" formation until things got frisky. One lead, one wing man, make a pair, two pair make a set.
     
  20. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,773
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    US typically flew the "finger four" formation until things got frisky. One lead, one wing man, make a pair, two pair make a set.
     

Share This Page