Dutchman returns Holocaust medal

Actually, Palestine has been recognized as a non member state effectively making them an actual nation.

The settlements (the 100+ that Israel doesn't rule as illegal) are largely built under planning and funding from the Israeli Civil administration, which as an entity of COGAT (Co-ordination of government activities in the territories) which in turn is a unit of the Defense Ministry of Israel. So there is a direct line back to the Government of Israel putting them selves in direct violation of the Fourth Geneva convention, Article 49.

Fair point, You are correct but is amazing how states such as Israel and the US originally joined it before leaving once they realized they too could be taken to court.

But doesnt mean that it isn't either, Perhaps we should encourage Palestine to join the ICC and sort it out for good?

As for the housing, I'll happily concede that a percentage (high or low, Dont have the numbers) of them would have been knocked down due to there being used as a hide out or weapons facility etc except the IDF them selves have stated another reason for it being so was 'Deterrence' - achieved by harming the relatives of those who carry out, or are suspected in involvement of carrying out. The IDF reason on Deterrence is collective punishment in a nut shell. 'You didnt do the crime but f*** it, We going to knock your house down anyway"

Actually, It is illegal to use white phosphorous against civilians in accordance to the Geneva conventions. While it was used in some open area's (perfectly legal if they took all safety measures with what few civilians were around) they also used it in heavily built up civilian area's of Gaza City (Perfectly illegal). At the same time they had use of other equipment for creating smoke screens (Less likely to get wind blowing away the smoke if it down in the city streets). So it is entirely relevant.

Forced? No, Encouraged and assisted through government policy and agencies? Yes. New Settlements? No, Settlement growth beyond natural growth from those already there? Yes.

And for those that have committed terrorist actions I agree forfeit the right to be held and imprisoned within the territories. However when children as young as 12 are imprisoned within Israel for throwing stones at IDF personnel then Israel has crossed the line.

 

An Insider’s Guide to the Most Important Story on Earth


A former AP correspondent explains how and why reporters get Israel so wrong, and why it matters

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/183033/israel-insider-guide?all=1

 

Interesting article, Can agree with some of her points, Others I can not.

 

"Actually, Palestine has been recognized as a non member state effectively making them an actual nation."


Aside from the fact that Fatah has never formally declated independance and UNGA resolutions are legally meaningless. The not state of Palestine is one without clearly defined borders and without a government. The territory they claim(since 1967) is also claimed by Israel(since before 1967) and they have two mutually hostile governments. The latter would make "Palestine" a failed state.

 

The fact that there is a "direct line" (if it is a fact) doesn't mean that they are in direct violation of the article. As others have pointed out there are other factors as well in this.

That's one interpretation. More likely they agreed with the originally expressed intent but when they saw that the implementation was going to be a weapon to be used against them they withdrew. Rational actors really do question the "good will" of a fair number of international organizations.

Looking at the historical precedents it looks like a perfectly legal blockade to me.

This is indeed something of a grey area. If one of the punishments for terrorist actions is that one's house gets demolished that seems legitimate to me. The fact that it has a negative impact on others in the family doesn't make it "collective punishment" as any fines or imprisenment can have such negative impacts. When convictions of terrorist activities or injuries or death while performing them are rewarded with cash to the families this looks to me to be a reasonable way to counter that. Whether or not it is a war crime though is an open question IMO.

Wrong. It's not being used agains civilians so it's not illegal. Other means of creating smoke may be possible but it's not just whether or not you can create the smoke it's how fast you can create it, whether or not the means are readily available, what the relative risks, costs, and payoffs are. Simply put using White Phosphorus is in general not illegal. If you want to make a case for a specfic incident go ahead.

??? One of the most ancient forms of execution is stoneing. Stones can inflict serious injury or death. Since this is being conducted in concert with other terrorist actions I don't see it as crossing any line at all.

 

Just by the way, I recently read the US Border Patrol considers throwing rocks an attack with a deadly weapon and responds in the way US law enforcement does in such situations. The Israelis merely fire bean bags and rubber bullets or not at all.

 

Seems that the Israelis, just like the US Border Patrol, sometimes use more lethal force against rock throwers.
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/IDF-soldier-shoots-dead-Palestinian-rock-thrower-344943
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/14/us-palestinians-israel-westbank-idUSKBN0FJ0YY20140714

 

It is an attack with a deadly weapon after all. More than one Jew has been muerdered that way.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/04/09/a-rock-is-a-bullet-the-consequences-of-palestinian-rock-throwing/ahikam-tzuriel-cohen-arzi/

What is surprising is that they react with deadly force just occasionally and not by default.

 

Police and army in Ulster endured 30 years of kids throwing rocks at them. It still happens.
Any arrested for doing so are dealt with by the Youth Justice Agency-
http://www.dojni.gov.uk/index/youth-justice-agency.htm

 

They react with the weapons they have on hand, just as US Customs does.

This is not some video game where one can lug around umpteen weapons for each and every situation that may arise. US Customs has and uses several non-lethal weapons ranging from compressed air pistols and rifles that fire pepper rounds(IIRC the rifles can also fire rubber projectiles), as well as flash-bang grenades that have small rubber balls as part of their payload. However, not all officers carry or are trained in their use. For example, if you are out in the middle of nowhere along the border where you expect contact with drug cartels or "coyotes", you are likely not going to be humping a compressed air rifle to shoot the rock throwers hired by the cartels, as well as a rifle to use against the cartel's drug runners when you find them around the corner.

 

Voted. Great reading...
Had also thought WP was a no no.

Yes Israel has a right to defend, and is constantly harassed. But like a trained martial artist, they are doing a fine job of parrying blows. Like the champ beating the crap out of some obnoxious drunk, there should be a limit...People go to jail/get sued here for defending themselves/home too aggressively.

 

As the AP reporter in the earlier link points out, its become more about image than reality. That image is being framed by a media that is increasingly co-opted by Islamist propaganda. Hamas and related groups have fired over 15,000 rockets into Israel since 2001. They have fired over 3000 rockets this year alone, and now they have Iranian rockets with much more range and accuracy than the earlier models.

That is not an obnoxious drunk, it's a well armed killing machine. The media loves to point out that relatively few Israeli's get killed in these attacks, as if that somehow renders them meaningless. The reason that more Israeli's aren't killed is because the nation has spent hundreds of millions of dollars building shelters and setting up alarm systems. People are living their lives under siege, always ready to dash into the nearest shelter.

Contrast that with Hamas. Hamas doesn't build shelters to protect people in Gaza. They deliberately shoot the missiles from densely populated areas hoping that any retaliation will kill some innocents. Hamas is overjoyed if a few of their citizens get killed in a retaliatory attack. Suffering and death is merely a propaganda tool to them.

 

Israel is a tiny speck of land with a mere 8 million people, surrounded by a few hundered million very hostile muslims. The fact that Israel still exists, is not for a lack of attempts to eliminate it. Considering that and given how muslims treat their enemies/each other, Israel is showing an astonishing degree of restraint. And we must remember the extraordinary steps Isreal takes to protect the civillian population of the enemy. House specific warnings by telephone and just to be certain a 'knock on the roof', sometimes even followed by a mission aborted.

That goes way beyond what the laws of war require and what anyone else is doing.

 

I have read somewhere that the house of relative bombed by Israel was hosting a night memeber of Hamas... Can anyone verify this?

 

"was hosting a night memeber of Hamas."

Not sure what you mean MrS. ..A member of Hamas was staying the night in a house bombed by Israel? -This action took place in 2002: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_Shehade

Many innocents are also killed by Hamas.

 

"Hamas appeared to admit using human shields to fire rockets into Israel for the first time today, but refused to accept responsibility for the slaughter of hundreds of innocent Palestinians killed in retaliatory airstrikes.
In a veiled confession that comes two weeks after the end of the Gaza war, a senior Hamas official said the group's fighters had no choice but to use residential areas from which to launch missiles into their neighbour's territory.
But while Ghazi Hamad claimed they took safeguards to keep people away from the violence, he admitted 'mistakes were made', blaming Israel's heavy-handed response for the deaths of civilians.
'Gaza, from Beit Hanoun in the north to Rafah in the south, is one uninterrupted urban chain that Israel has turned into a war zone,' said Mr Hamad, a senior Hamas official in Gaza.
Increasingly, the discussion is not about whether the Hamas rockets were fired from civilian areas, but exactly how close they were to the actual buildings.
'The Israelis kept saying rockets were fired from schools or hospitals when in fact they were fired 200 or 300 meters (yards) away. Still, there were some mistakes made and they were quickly dealt with,' Hamad told The Associated Press, offering the first acknowledgment by a Hamas official that, in some cases, militants fired rockets from or near residential areas or civilian facilities."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753176/Hamas-DID-use-schools-hospitals-Gaza-Strip-human-shields-launch-rocket-attacks-Israel-admits-says-mistake.html#comments

 

Couldn't a low collateral damage weapon be used against targets in built up areas? Why pulverize whole neighborhoods.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/planes-uavs/5-weapons-systems-to-reduce-collateral-damage-blu-126b-low-collateral-damage-bomb

 

The problem is if they are using a "shoot and scoot" aproach it can be hard to get them with a weapon designed to minimize collateral damage. Likewise if you spot a missile or mortar team just before they shoot you want to get them fast. The assets to requred to successfuly utilize a low collateral damage weapon simply may not be in place to meet the time constraints.

 

No wonder the Jews hate Jesus Christ.

I am told that the Elders of Zionism have written an open letter to God, the text of which goes....

Dear Lord,

We have heard rumors for a long time now about another visit from your only son. We are aware of your concern for his welfare, but, based upon the latent difficulties we have been having with our neighbours since his departure after the previous visit, we most respectfully request that for this coming journey you leave him firmly AT HOME. Is a personal appearence too much to ask? Sending a representative causes far more misunderstandings than we feel are absolutely necessary, (the last 2000 odd years, for example) and a personal audience by your God self would be mighty handy for the deployment of lightning bolts, floods, plagues, parting waters etc, etc.

Sincerely Yours

The State of Israel.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-fh-fRs7To