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Excuse for German attack on Poland?

Discussion in 'Prelude to War & Poland 1939' started by General_Patton, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. USMC

    USMC Member

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    I have also heard this plausible excuse. To the average German this may have worked, but to others a question may be posed. Why would the Polish attack a radio station?
     
  2. Pelekys

    Pelekys Member

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    First of all we must have in mind that Poland as a country had different gravity in 1939 than today.
    There were aristocracy, Castles, traditional military families, industry, etc. An invasion to Poland was not like an invasion in a Granada.
    While the agreement Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed, Hitler called for a meeting the commanders of the Armies and informed them that next week they will invade in Poland. Initially the invasion date was the 26th of August.
    Indeed units of early Brandenburgers entered Poland in order to prepare the conditions (sabotages, control of important crossroads, chaos in communications and in rear lines of Polish army, collection of information) for an easy invasion. These 'commandos' have origin from Poland and all speak the Polish language fluently.
    The funny thing was that just before the final order for invasion Hitler informed that England and Poland has signed an agreement of help each other in case of an invasion to the one or to other country. So Hitler postponed the invasion but a 'commando' unit which has as mission to take a railway station in Silesia so to help von List's army to march, did not take the message of the postpone of the invasion, they took the station and find out from the Polish prisoners that there was no war between Germany and Poland!!
    Although generally Hitler did not have any problems to make an invasion anywhere I believe that he wished to have a profile of a man who respect the international laws. I think he wished to be legitimate in the eyes of the other Europeans and especially of the English-government and people.
    After all he did not wish to be enemy of all the others.
    Between 25 and 30 Aug. many negotiations took place between Germany, England, France and Poland. Although England and France were conciliatory, the Germans asked too much from Poland (Danzig and the 'Corridor', the Soviet Union to take part in negotiations) and in fact insulted the Polish so to make them to refuse. In fact they knew the secret communications between the Polish
    diplomats and Government so they knew that the Polish did not want to negotiate anything.
    On 31 Aug. 8 Germans with Polish uniforms and with leader the SS Major Alfred Nawjoks entered in the radio station of Glaiwitch a small city 1,6 km from the the borderline Germany-Poland and started to transmitted propaganda against Germany and messages in Polish that it is necessary Poland to attack to Germany. Some dead bodies with Polish uniforms (there were dead men from a concentration camp) found too and so the scenario of a Polish invasion seems to be true. The European Governments and the European press also did not believe this scenario however Hitler started the invasion as an act of defense in the Polish 'invasion' and in the name of the protection of the German population who lived in the Polish territory. He was legal in the eyes of the Germans and their European followers.
     
  3. syscom3

    syscom3 Member

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    Those two statements contridict each other.
     
  4. Pelekys

    Pelekys Member

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    Of course. We are speaking about an Hypocritical personality. I think it is quiet known that Germany and Poland have signed an Agreement for not attack on 1934.
    I think continuously contradiction in words and acts is a characteristic of any schizophrenic personality. Unfortunately same can be found in many many politicians.
     
  5. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    I suspect the ruse of a 'Polish' attack on Germany had two purposes, as Pelekys stated to give the impression world wide that Germany was not doing what it in fact was, attacking without provocation in the extremely limited hopes that Britain and France might not declare war. The second one was for internal public consumption. While many Germans looked on in pride with the nation Hitler created, they deeply feared a new war and were unsure they could prevail. The 'Attack' served to help convince them this was not a war of choice, but one forced on them by the enemy. How much was true belief, and how much wishfull thinking only they could say.
     
  6. Pelekys

    Pelekys Member

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    For some reason, everyone wished to do what he wished but he tried to be legal and legitimate in the eyes of the world who watched.
    There is another similar important event. On 26 Nov. 1939 the Soviets bombed the Russian village Mainila, NW of Ladoga lake at the borderline between SU and Finland. The Soviets accused Finland for the bombing and demand to receive Finnish territories as compensation, as a repay for the damages.
    Finnish denied and on 30th November the Soviets started their attack with the political cover of this attack ready available! On 1st Dec. 1939, in borderline city Terijoki, Otto Vile Kuuzinen, leader of the Finnish Democracy, a Soviet puppet construction, legalize the Soviet try of Finland's liberation. After a while this "Finnish authority" signed Treaty of non attack with Soviets.
    So we see that in the beginning, at least, of the WW2 all the participants were for some reason very sensitive. Maybe because till then, every country was too separate and too i'individual'; organisations like United Nations was a future demand and a need also. So all the countries tried to present their arbitrarily demands as legal no matter if the result was to be ridiculous like a circus because of the grotesque execution of their plans.
     
  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    After taking the rest of the Czechoslovakia in march 1939 Hitler had lost all his trustworthy in the eyes of the Western Allied at least. After that they knew he could not be trusted. I recall Hitler said after the Munich conference to foreing politicians that he does not need any more land anywhere. And what happened?
     
  8. Pelekys

    Pelekys Member

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    The above is 100% correct.
    However either for Germans only or for those who had same or similar feelings with the nazis (and in every country more or less there were a similar movement) or for the neutral countries (Spain, Turkey etc.) seems that an excuse (even a very fake one)was necessary.
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Back in the early 20th century it was actually considered declaration of war if a country called his men to arms. One of the reasons why Finland made huge military practice sessions all over the country autumn 1939 instead of calling men to arms in case war broke out... In a way they did not need any excuses but propaganda wise I guess they needed one. German people were not fond of war during the early phase at least and I recall Hitler returning during the Polish operation or just after it to Berlin and people did not come out to greet him and Hitler was furious about leading these unwilling people to war...
     
  10. JBark

    JBark Member

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    Didn't Guderian "liberate" his homeland when he was leading his troops during the invasion?
     
  11. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Considering how many times the map of Europe has been redrawn since the fall of Rome just about any general in any army could be liberating his ancestral home at some point.
     
  12. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Hitler´s view on Poland:

    "Further successes can no longer be attained without the shedding of blood…Danzig is not the subject of the dispute at all. It is a question of expanding our living space in the east…there is no question of sparing Poland."

    Hitler’s Foreign Policy
     
  13. Pelekys

    Pelekys Member

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    In addition to the above post post, it seems that Hitler and others in Germany had influenced by the ideas of the Germans 'Geopolitics' professors like Haushofer.
    They believed that the Germans had depressed in a very limited area in Central Europe and they had to expand. They needed 'Lebensraum' vital space. They had to expand to the East and occupy the Russia and Western and Central Siberia. In this area is the Heart of the World. If a country wants to dominate in Earth, it is necessary to occupy this area.
    In their time, Great Britain dominated in the World as British dominated in the seas having a powerful fleet and all the world's sea crossroads, points like Gibraltar or Singapore.
    If another superpower wished to claim the leadership it was necessary to dominate in the land and especially in the 'Heartland' of the world as above. Poland was the first step.
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Hitler was also busy getting to war because he feared he might not live long enough to see the aryan race conquer the world. In 1938 he got scared he had cancer, and made the first testament. Also the fact that nazi Germany was going penniless meant that they needed to get cash soon and why not get it from the neighbours...

    http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/10177-hitler-s-testament-1938-a.html
     
  15. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    I recall seeing a documentary a few years back that speculated that Hitler got a Parkinsen's diagnosis in '35 or '36 based on the visual images of him no longer using his left hand much in speech's but rather hooking it into his belt or grasping something in it. It would coincide with his repeated changes in mobilization's and other acts.
     

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