Field- Marshal Sir William Robertson

Presently reading the above's biography. He was one of the few (and possibly the first ) British soldier to enlist at the lowest possible rank ( in his case he was a 16 year old cavalry trooper) and eventually attain the very highest rank, also, in his case, become the Chief of the Imperial General Staff.
In other less class ridden and more egalitarian armies of the World ( not ably that of the USA, of course) is it known of many others that have achieved this ?
BG

 

bosworth, if you single out the USA (or any other nation) like that then all you'll achieve is angering the people who are from that nation.

Please don't do that.

 

Creeping paranoia ?

I know that I have previously been criticised in this Forum for appearing to be anti American, and have put forward elsewhere in these pages a detailed and lengthy explanation as to why that might appear so. It was my fond hope that that that might have poured oil on those troubled waters and dispel any belief that I AM anti-American. However, it is utterly impossible that a Forum of this nature makes no mention of America ( and nor should it , of course ). Accepting, therefore, that clearly America and everything pertaining to it that is relevant to this Forum IS a valid topic of discussion, then does that mean that only favourable things may be said of that nation ?

As it happens, what about the post you refer to IS anti American ? After all, I have implied in the post that you have questioned that Great Britain is/was a class ridden society and that other countries including the USA are more egalitarian ( I assume that you know what that means ? ). How can you therefore think that I am being critical of the USA ?
Are we not being just a tad paranoid here ?
Cheers,
BG

 

Off the top of my head - Melvin R.Laird rose to Secretary of Defense (1969-73). He enlisted in the Navy in 1942.
Courtney Hodges enlisted as a private and rose to command an Army as a 4 star General.
Walter Kreuger not only rose to command an Army and enlisted as a private but wasn't even born in the US.

As Ricky pointed out you could have acheived the same end by merely asking if anyone else knew of any examples without pointing accusatory fingers at any country in particular.

ps I'm not sure that it proves anything anyway. I can think of a particular Bohemian Corporal who eventually became Supreme Chancellor.

 

Hip, Hip, Hooray, USA !

Apologies, Administrator, since upon re-reading the post in question I can see that it might have appeared to have been provocative to Americans( not that that is necessarily a bad thing !......oops. there I go again ! ).
Being provocative was never my intention in that post, since when writing it I knew instinctively that there would have been dozens of American officers who qualified for the distinction Robertson attained, and I was merely curious to learn more about them. As to my singling out America for particular attention, it is a rare Englishman with whom that singular country fails to command attention. Speaking for myself, ( and I am half American anyway ! )- I work there, own property there,and am fortunate to say that I have dozens of Americans as my closest and dearest friends. If she seems to command my attention ( and she does) it is for those reasons, and that I wish to learn more about her, and not because I wish to constantly criticise her.
BG
p.s. I don't know that I need to establish my pro USA view anymore ( I hope not )but I was also a major contributor to a book ( effectively that unit's WW2 history )dedicated to a well known WW2 US fighter wing and am credited accordingly in the acknowledgements

 

Absolutment ! But didn't Herr Hitler only make it as far as Corporal, and then he swung the other ranks by dint of oppression, tyranny and political assasinations etc. ? As for those who made it the hard way under the noses of C.S.M's and R.S.M.s and promotion boards, there must be a lot more, surely Grieg, that pulled 'emselves up by their bootstraps !
I have yet to Google " Black Jack" Pershing yet, but didn't he make it from humble Trooper to at least a three star General ( for the puposes of this discussion, and the swallowing of a generous portion of humble pie ! ) I am quite happy to accept a three star American General as being the equivalent of, say, a Marshal of the French Army.......I will leave senior Brits out of this topic, I think !
Cheers,
BG

 

See my previous post. I added a couple more I found.
Here is another.
William J. Perry, Sec of Defense 1993-94 began his career as an enlisted man.

 

A large glass of "Maker's Mark" !

I should have added as a post script to my last message, that I typed it with a very large glass of "Maker's Mark" to hand, having just given up watching "The Simpsons" to come and type it. Sure, I know that those things don't make me an Americophile, but it's a start !
BG

 

ahem...i read bos,s post as being PRO america here ,for what its worth .....the usa is more inclined to promote a soldier based on merit , naturally , being a nation founded and lead by non aristocrats ...of course in reality to make it to the top it greatly helps to be the son of an admiral or general and to have been through annapolis or west point is practically manditory .,....hackworth ,who just recently passed on was at the time of his death americas most decorated soldier.. he retired only a colonel but would have made general if he wasnt so blunt with his opinions on army tactics and policy while still serving , he enlisted as a prvt in ww2..iirc he was wounded in greece ,korea and in viet nam..when he took command of a snafued demoralized unit in the mekong delta in svn he so shook up the structure and old (bad ) habits in the unit that he soon had a price on his head (put there by his own troops !!! ) ..his changes however began to pay dividends in dead vc and live americans for a change ..and he became the darling of his grunts and the thorn in the side of his own brass..a great mustang soldier ...R.I.P. HACK ..

 

Bosworth - I was not accusing you of being anti-American, just asking you to think carefully about how your posts will be viewed by other board users. Being provocative can be worthwhile, but deliberately singling out a country for no apparent purpose is not.

 

Thailand!

 

Nathan Bedford Forrest enlisted in a Confederate cavalry regiment as a private and ended the war as a lieutenant general.

 

Thank you, Majorwoody10, for your kind words of support. You are quite right as to my alluding to the fact that the US Army IS much more likely to promote on merit, and I can think of no other army ( other than perhaps that of Revolutionary France - even the French Foreign Legion tends to keep it officer corp French) that is inclined to do so. Unfortunately I have a tendency to make my comments appear to be criticisms and that, allied to having actually made some criticisms (and why not ? ) previously, does make others incline to kneejerk reactions. But, it still remains my problem to deal with and I am conscious of that ! I do, however, try to balance the scales by also submitting positive and favourable comments from time to time...........even about the USA ! (joke !!!! )
BG

 

It is intriguing that NBF entered the CSA as a private, since he always appeared to me to be first class officer material. I believe that he also came from the type of family that also would have traditionally supplied men of officer corp calibre. However, even in the class ridden British Army men descricbed as gentlemen rankers still enlisted and may well have not sought promotion, although 150 years ago this might have been a way of hoping for eventual officer rank but avoiding purchase of it. This prompts an interesting question which I shall give a Thread of it's own !
BG

 

Everything I have read about Forrest indicates that he was born into a poor family and had very little formal education. He made himself a rich man (partly by trading slaves, unfortunately) by the time the war broke out. He was one of those rarities, a man with no military education or training who was a natural at war. He is considered by many to have been the finest cavalry commander either side provided during the Civil War.