Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Game 7

Discussion in 'Forum Gaming' started by Zhukov_2005, Nov 18, 2005.

  1. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toothless Capital of the World
    via TanksinWW2
    Please place your designs in here:
     
  2. Man

    Man New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norway
    via TanksinWW2
    I am sorry. I am in the middle of an exam period and writing and searching for references for various applications. I have not had time to work on it. Sorry to take up the space of the USA without producing anything :(
     
  3. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    I would like to request that the deadline be moved on to monday, I have a very intensive time-consuming class on friday and I wouldn't want to deliver bad-quality artwork to Ricky's high-quality writing.
     
  4. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toothless Capital of the World
    via TanksinWW2
    I'm sure that can be arranged, my good sir. Monday it is, but please let that be the one and only postponement.
     
  5. Oli

    Oli New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Scunthorpe, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Calvin Amphibious Assault Vehicle
    Great Britain
    In response to the Zanobossia requirement for an amphibious infantry carrier/ support vehicle we offer the Calvin.
    Based on the Cromwell tank with reduced armour, the vehicle has a Vickers Mk.VI light tank turret carrying a 3.7 (94 mm) in close-support gun (actually a muzzle-loading mortar) capable of firing HE and smoke rounds, the turret also has a co-axial 0.303 in machine gun, and may fit the standard British 2” smoke bomb launchers. Optional armament is of course the standard Vickers Mk.VI BESA 15 mm machine gun. A commander’s Bren is also available.
    The vehicle has a standard Meteor engine (600 hp), relocated forward at the side of the driver, and has the turret on the right behind the driver, with accommodation for the vehicle commander and gunner.
    Additional armament consists of infantry weapons fired from the rear-mounted troop well, three Bren/ Lewis/ Vickers guns may be mounted on the provided pintles, and any other troop weapons may be used from within the well e.g. PIAT, Boyes AT Rifle.
    The troop well can carry eight equipped infantrymen in comfort (seated on a central bench facing outwards), or 12 with no weapons or packs. Additionally the well may be used for ammunition/ supply transport.
    The troop well may be fitted with overhead anti-grenade roofing, either sheet steel or netting/ canvas at the reduction of turret traverse. The roofing will of course obscure the troops’ arc of vision.
    The driving concern in this contract was the specification that the vehicle be capable of crossing a 2 metre trench, which made demands upon centre of gravity location and forced up the vehicle size – a shorter vehicle would have been easier to make light enough to be amphibious without extra flotation screens, but would have been incapable of crossing the trench. As it turned out the extra length provided space for the carriage of troops, thus fulfilling the secondary requirement.
    Armour is a maximum of 50 mm on the front and 20 mm elsewhere.
    Vehicle Specifications:
    Weight: 18500 kg/ 18.2 tons
    Size: see drawing
    Speed: 59 kph/ 37 mph - 6.4 kph/ 4 mph in water
    Range: 320 km/ 199 miles
    Ground Pressure: 0.749 kg/ sq. cm/ 10.65 lbs/ sq. in
    Fording Depth: 1197 mm/ 47 inches (without preparation)
    Amphibious capability is provided by a DD-tank-style skirt which under normal conditions gives access for the main gun to fire while raised (170 mm of freeboard), but may be raised an extra metre for rough sea conditions or to provide extra flotation ability should the troop well be used for cargo – after easy removal of the troop bench seating up to 2 tonnes of cargo may be carried if it is of a size to fit the well (1600 x 2000 mm, no height limit).
    [​IMG]
    Trench Crossing
    [​IMG]
    Postscript: I nearly resigned from this one, what with the problem of getting over a 2-metre trench. I'm glad I didn't, but if I'd picked to work as the Russian team I'd have called this a Bovevaya Mashina Piekhoty = BMP!! :lol: It surprised me how it turned out.
    Edit: just added the speed in water - can't think how I forgot that :oops:
     
  6. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toothless Capital of the World
    via TanksinWW2
    I know I shouldn't do this, but me likey! :eek:
     
  7. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Just wait till monday, you'll see... :wink:
     
  8. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Team Germany (Ricky and Roel)

    Amphibischer gepanzerter Träger IV/III "Wasserschlange"


    The Zanabossian Requirements were met with interest by the German design team, as they had not had the opportunity to work on an amphibious AFV since the cancellation of Seelöwe in 1941. Old files were reached down from high shelves, and after the application of dusters three existing designs were discovered.

    There was the Landwasserschlepper (LWS), the Pz.III Tauchpanzer and the Pz.II Ausf.C “swimming tank”.

    The LWS was ignored, as it was essentially a motorboat with tracks added, and was developed as nothing more than a tracked amphibious tractor.

    The Pz.II was rejected almost immediately, as in itself it did not meet the requirements, and the modifications required to make it float were not practical on a heavier tank.

    The Tauchpanzer concept was initially viewed with great interest, especially as they had proved their worth during the Don crossing in the opening stages of Barbarossa. However, questions were raised about the practicality of their operating in depths greater than 15m, and concerns about how they could be launched into deep water. Reluctantly, the designers were forced to drop the Tauchpanzer concept.

    In desperation, they looked at the various Amphibious AFV concepts that they had encountered in combat, but all were judged unsuitable or plain dangerous to their crews.

    Having exhausted all other possibilities, the design team turned back to the LWS. Initial concept designs simply added 50mm of armour to the existing hull and superstructure, and added a turret to the roof. This was quickly seen to be a bad idea, as the resulting vehicle was overly tall, and the extra weight not only crippled the speed, but also put too great a burden on the suspension. To add insult to injury the narrow track width gave such poor ground pressue that the test vehicle regularly sank into the sand during trials.

    To counter these problems, the existing LWS suspension was replaced with a modified (watertight) version of the tried and tested Pz.IV suspension, and equipped with the new Maybach HL 100 engine.
    Next the entire superstructure was removed, and a new ‘flush’ deck added, with the bow being slightly shortened and the slight upwards curve of the deck removed. A tank turret was then added to the deck. After much discussion it was decided that the turret of the Pz.III ausf N, with its 75mm KwK 37 L/24 gun was perfectly acceptable, especially as it exceeded the design requirements without causing too great a weight penalty.

    This new design was considered to be a great success, being relatively speedy, well armed and armoured, and no taller than a standard Pz.IV. The one oddity was that there was a large empty space immediately aft of the turret / fighting compartment. Initially it was felt that this could simply be used as extra ammunition and fuel storage space. However, it occurred to the designers that this space could be much better employed to give the vehicle a secondary APC capacity, and the space was quickly fitted out to hold 6 combat-ready infantrymen, who entered and exited through a hatch in the deck. This meant that 2 of these tanks could transport a full infantry section to the beach in comparative safety, and provide them with fire support as they dismounted.

    As a speculative venture, a dedicated APC varient was also designed, with the Pz.III turret replaced by a Pz.II turret, and the infantry capacity increased to a slightly cramped 12, or a more comfortable 10.

    The tank was officially designated the Amphibischer gepanzerter Träger IV/III, but it quickly acquired the nickname Wasserschlange, owing to its ability to be perfectly at home on land or sea, and its capability of giving a deadly bite to its foes.

    Specifications for the Amphibischer gepanzerter Träger IV/III Wasserschlange

    Weight: 23000kg
    Crew: 4 men + 6 infantry
    Engine: Maybach HL 100 / 400hp
    Speed: Road: 50km/h, Cross-Country: 20-25km/h, Water: 12km/h
    Range: Road: 260km, Cross-Country: 130km
    Fuel Capacity: 470 litres
    Lenght: 7.46m
    Width: 2.80m
    Height: 2.68m
    Armament: 1 x 75mm KwK 37 L/24, 1 x 7.62mm MG34
    Armor (mm): Front Hull: 50, Side Hull: 30, Rear Hull: 20, Hull Top / Bottom: 15

    [​IMG]
     
  9. dave phpbb3

    dave phpbb3 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    via TanksinWW2
    SOVIET T-35L/W BS (Land and water battleship)

    The Soviet Company Davidkov has designed an amphibious tank from the T-35 Heavy tank :D .
    The tank float simply by fitting an empty cylinder on each side the dimensions of the cylinder are R=1m and Length=9m. The T-35 has had the rearward turret removed and in its place a layer of steel 20mm thick. the steel incorparates 3 DKsh guns on their mounts (1 on the left, back on right)
    The steel goes no hight than the height of the back turret. The tank still retains the front 3 turrets and the central turret holding the 76mm.
    (sorry i dont have any pictures and this design was hastilly desgined and not well thought through. You just have to imagine that I've found a way of moving throught the water because i dont have a clue nad if anyone says it's impossible then i'll retract it from the competition)

    Davidkov sending the land battleship back to sea :D
     
  10. PanzerMeister

    PanzerMeister New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    PAT-43, Floating Amphibious Tank, "Cherepakha"

    The Soviet Union has very little experience of building invasion crafts, but that won't discourage us. The vehicle is nicknamed "Cherepakha" or "Tortoise".

    Firstly, the Soviet engineers found out that a PS-3 76.2 mm low-velocity gun would be ideal for engaging infantry. It's twice lighter than the F-34 and has a rate of fire of 11-12 shots per minute. This is the main armament of PAT-43. Also a coaxial DT is fitted.

    BT-7 hull was found suitable. Some armour was removed, hooks and slenders for infantry to grab on were added. About 8 soldiers have room on the rear deck, but overall the whole squad of 12 soldiers can be carried.

    What makes this vehicle amphibious? Pontoons! They are attached to side rails (welded on the hull) by locks and can be quickly (half a minute) detached. They're about 70 cm thick, 4 meters long and 2 meters wide. They're made of wood and painted dark blue for camouflaging purposes. The vehicle is propelled by the tracks and reaches a speed of 8 km/h in still water.

    A BT-7 can cross trenches 2 meters wide, and so can PAT-43.

    Specifications:
    Weight: 15 tons
    Crew: Driver, gunner, leader + 12 infantry men
    Engine: V-2 12-cylinder V-form Diesel, 500 hp
    Fording depth (w/o pontoons): 1,2 m
    Ground pressure: 0.80 kg/sq. cm.
    Range: 600 km
    Speed: 62 km/h

    Sorry, no pic.

    PanzerMeister
     
  11. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toothless Capital of the World
    via TanksinWW2
    [Self-Edit]

    Boy oh Boy, this is going to be the toughest decision I've had to make in a long time.

    Great entrys, gentlemen. Here's the lowdown:

    Calvin Amphibious Assualt Vehicle: Great presentation, excellent choice in firepower, and generally fits all requirements to the tee! I am somewhat concerned over the size of the CAAV's tracks, for they appear on your drawings too thin to deal with sandy beaches.

    Wasserschlange :eek: Very nice! Beautiful drawings! Impressive troop capacity at up to 12 infantry. The size, however, limits the amount that can be carried on LSTs. It also presents a rather large target for enemy anti-infantry troops.

    SOVIET T-35L/W BS: Interesting design, I'll give you that, but my imagination is not helping me on this one. I would have liked to seen more data on the combat abilities and the weight of the vehicle.

    PAT-43, Floating Amphibious Tank, "Cherepakha" : Excellent choice in the BT-7, but I can't imagine 12 troops clinging on to the deck of that thing in turbulent waters. Brilliant idea with the addition of pontoons.

    The Verdict:

    This is an extremely difficult decision. All designs are very impressive and meet the requirements I ask. My choice goes to PanzerMeister and the PAT-43. The weight is minimal, which I stated as a plus. The idea of using pontoons didn't even occur to me, but nevertheless is an excellent idea for keeping weight and dimensions minimal. I will give the benefit of the doubt that my infantry have the strength and courage to ride on this vehicle to the shoreline.

    I want to give special praise to Oli for his excellent design presentations and to Roel for his absolutely gourgous artistic skills. Please tell me you are saving all your entry pictures?

    Ok, the game is PanzerMeister's. Thank you everyone for submitting such excellent designs and for giving me something fun to do while I sit bored at school! :grin:
     
  12. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Interesting verdict, and a good game as always! I will be looking forward to Game 8.

    Naturally. In order to be hyperlinked here they have to be uploaded; besides, I keep them on my harddrive and I have a permanent backup on my USB stick. So they're saved in threefold. :wink:

    Panzer 38(t) Ausf R
    Donnerwetter
    Jaguar
    Panzerspähwagen P201 205(f) nA
    Eisbär
    Wasserschlange
     
  13. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toothless Capital of the World
    via TanksinWW2
    Indeed. But please, next time I happen to be the judge, let's not make the decision so brutally hard! :lol:
     
  14. Oli

    Oli New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Scunthorpe, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Congrats Panzermeister, well done.
    Right click and save as... or I can zip mine and e-mail to anyone who wants -all drawings are done at full size and in Autocad .dwg format, then cut and pasted into Paint Shop Pro for posting.
    If you require copies then say whether .jpg or .dwg (or even 1/76 scale - one reason I do them on CAD is that I can magnify downards to print out working drawings :lol: )
     
  15. PanzerMeister

    PanzerMeister New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Just imagine a BT-7 with two dark blue boxes, 70 cm high x 400 cm long and 200 cm wide, hanging on the sides, about 50 cm above the ground. It would look very awkward and clumsy on land! :D

    I got my last test tomorrow, so I'll publish the contest tomorrow. Ok?
     
  16. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toothless Capital of the World
    via TanksinWW2
    Oli, I would be honoured to recieve copies of your work as well. If you could send them in .jpg to jalapeno87@hotmail.com , that would be great. :grin:
     

Share This Page