Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

How Sealion could have been made workable?

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by leopold, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,048
    Likes Received:
    267
    Barges, Who needs them? The Germans were after all superhuman, and I am sure that had the tiger been ready, it would have been floatable and even submersible and still able to take on the British. lol
     
  2. FalkeEins

    FalkeEins Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    75
    ..over-run the French and the Low Countries without sustaining such heavy losses, specifically aircraft. Ensure that the French don't sabotage all their major infrastructure facilities ( the He 111s of KG 4 based in wrecked aerodromes near the coast didn't even have a fresh water supply..). Develop and equip their a/c with drop tanks...

    ..Sealion wasn't ever intended to be 'workable' - it was political subterfuge, a means of exerting some psychological pressure on the British & in particular Churchill. They picked the wrong man to bully....go read a translation of Goebbel's Diaries
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    372
    Location:
    Portugal
    Thanks for the link. The problem also was that having all those barges requisitioned from the civilian economy and immobilised in the invasion ports was already affecting the said economy, as the traffic at the Rhine, Maas, canals, etc, was already frozen and the barges had to be returned in order to avoid collapse.
     
  4. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    67
    Once again Logistics stalling the war... Why can't logistics take a hike???
    On a more serious note, thanks for the link. It was unknown to me that the germans still depended on the Barges for commerce...




    Cheers...


    Cheers...
     
  5. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    372
    Location:
    Portugal
    Logistics take a hike? Physics would have to go first :)

    Depending on barges? They still do! Inland waterways are and will be the most effective cargo transportation means there is, together with rail!

    [​IMG]

    P.S. and now picture these in the open seas, glug, glug, glug :D
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,322
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Location:
    Michigan
    There's a whole series of threads on that forum dedicated to specific Sea Lion topics. Including things like the British defenses. Over on the what if branch there are also a number that seam to have taken the attitude toward logistics and and physics expressed in fun earlier on this forum seriously.
     
  7. AmonMauser

    AmonMauser Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    7
    pardon me Mr. Historian but isn't this a 'what if' thread? My point wasn't that "at the time the V-2's weren't effective" rather than later in the war they turned out to be devastating for England, they couldn't prevent them from reigning terror on London. -Now at the time the war was pretty much over for Germany but if Hitler wouldn't have gone into Russia and instead focused on the Atlantic Wall and Fortress Europe. If Hitler had put the V-2 program as the highest priority he could have perfected the V-2's by 1944 or 1945 and with D-Day never occuring or failed he would have leveled London and brought England to its knees.
     
  8. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    372
    Location:
    Portugal
    I love a sense of humour!

    As we're on a What-If, what if the Allies intensified their light bomber effort to catch the V-2 launchers before lauch, creating a number of big booms across Germany, causing as much if not more "devastation"? I'm sure the P-47 boys who had free reign over Germany by that time would have loved it.

    And what-if the OSS or SIS had eliminated Werner Braun and/or Gen, Walther Dornberger?

    What If's are double edged, you know.

    And I jave no objection to have people pointing out the practical difficulties with these wet dreams. Kind of burst one's bubbles, don't they?

    What Ifs are like the Twilight Zone: Where Pigs Fly and The Reich Wins WW2
     
  9. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,194
    Likes Received:
    346
    There is still a problem with the timing of your suggestion. Operation Sea Lion was planned for the summer/fall of 1940. By 1941, England was far too well defended for Germany to have even the remotest chance of successfully invading. The Germans had been working on the V-2 program since 1937, and it still was not operational until September, 1944. So no matter how much priority Germany might put on the project, it was unlikely it could have ever been ready by the summer of 1940.

    Furthermore, the V-2 did not "devastate England", and as far as reigning (sic) terror on London, they were an abject failure. London had been under V-2 attack for four weeks before most of the residents became aware of anything unusual, and then only because Germany made an announcement that it was targeting the city with V-2 rockets. Only about half of the V-2's launched against England actually hit anything but the ground, and while a few random strikes killed a large number of people, the average death toll overall per rocket, was just two people. However, The cost per rocket, was approximately 100,000 Reichsmarks which was comparable to the cost of one heavy bomber. A bomber, of course, could carry a much heavier payload, was far more accurate, more flexible, and was reusable.

    With the exception of the Atomic bomb, The V-2 was probably the most sophisticated weapon used in WW II. But it was not a war-winning weapon, and could not possibly have produced significant results in the 1940-41 time period.
     
  10. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    "German stuff is freaking sweet!!!" :rolleyes:.
     
  11. AmonMauser

    AmonMauser Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    7
    actually they are, I would take any German weapon over a Allied weapon. The only thing the Allies had going for them was they had more of everything but the weapons themselves were inferior. Like I said the V-2's could have been perfected and if D-Day was a failure they could have used them on New York. JCFalkenbergIII you go jump in your Sherman and I'll jump in my Tiger I and we'll see what happens.
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    372
    Location:
    Portugal
    New York? Why always New york? What about Sheboygan WI, aren't they worthy of a V-2 or two?

    [​IMG]
     
    Slipdigit likes this.
  13. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    67

    Well Railway is the future in cargo transport hands down! These barges however... Have to see their cost/effectiveness. The advantage of railway regarding any other kind of transport is it's cheapness energy consumption (most being electric and can/will use renewable energies in the near future) couple great aerodynamics and no attrition from the rails and you have a high velocity, high capacity means of delivery with little energy cost... What Germany needed in WWII was a Fontes Pereira de Melo :D
    I'm still not convinced by river barges!


    Cheers...
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    AmonMauser,

    the vengeange ( V1, v2, v3 etc) weapons were on top of the list already because Hitler insisted. Just like the bombing missions against the UK in 1944 where the bombers were lost practically for nothing. If Blitz in 1940 did not win the war then how would the V-weapons do it?

    then again for instance as the funds went into these V-weapons the me 262 was not getting the attention it should have.
     
  15. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,194
    Likes Received:
    346
    JC was being sarcastic. Many German weapons in WW II were expensive, over-engineered garbage, the V-2 being a prime example. The purpose of war-time weapons development and production isn't to produce weapons that impress adolescent minds with their lethal looks, it's to build adequate weapons in sufficient quantities to win the war.

    Only if you ignore the laws of physics.
     
  16. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    18,045
    Likes Received:
    2,364
    Location:
    Alabama
    I'm assuming you referencing a straight, one on one [insert deep announcer voice here] duel...to...the...death? All that would be required of the M4 would be that it circle around, staying out of gun range of the PzKw VI until the Tiger broke down, which it was going to do at some point. With the PzKw VI's armor in front and slow turn rate of the turret, a rear shot by the M4 would not be unexpected.
     
  17. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    LOL And reality. And I would rather prefer the Pershing,Firefly,T-34/85 or M36 Jackson thank you.Too bad war isn't as simple as the you in yours and I in mine BS. It didn't happen that way in real life. Only in videogames. And its still pretty amazing how some adore the German weapons "superiority". And yet they still lost. :rolleyes:. And then they claim "Oh they were outnumbered, ect, ect !! Blah Blah Blah" :rolleyes:. And that brings up yet another one of the shortcoming of the Germans. LOL. Weapons alone don't win a war. And the Germans sure had alot of those "Wet Dream" types. The only one being closest to doing that is the Atomic bomb.
     
  18. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    LOL Jeff I was thinking the same thing. Check out the Video clip on how fast and manuverable the Sherman was and think of how fast the Tiger was LOL. In a one on one who would get the first hit? LOL.

    Modifications to the M-4 Sherman Tank
     
  19. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    Sorry everyone. I know that the prior comments have NOTHING to do with the subject. Lets get back to the :deadhorse: and :headbash: .
     
  20. AmonMauser

    AmonMauser Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    7
    The Germans had more advanced weapons but they were being bombed 24 hours a day by the Allies so they couldn't utilize them. If Hitler hadn't gone into Russia he could have utilized them to bring England/US to their knees. -Especially if he got the atomic bomb, he could have put a warhead in the V-2. I just watched a documentary on the history channcel where they said at the very end of the war they were very close to being able to launch a V-2 and have it strike the Eastern seaboard of the United States.
     

Share This Page