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If the Germans had captured Moscow, what do you think would have happened?

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Eastern Front & Balka' started by C.Evans, Jan 2, 2001.

  1. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

    this is Sloniksp's post quote......after the'' unmerciful harshness'', ruthlessness, murders, destruction, etc that the Germans did, you really think Russia is going to talk? or give that back to Germany? which the Russians did
     
  2. DerGiLLster

    DerGiLLster Member

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    I think this thread deserves reviving(some unanswered questions for me IMO).

    Really though, I think a loss of Moscow would probably range in the middle, I think it would be a setback but it certainly would not be a an absolute victory for the campaign. They surely could relocate their capital, but wasn't their planned relocation of the capital seen as temporary? If the Germans are able to hold on to Moscow for the duration of the winter of 1941/1942, how bad would the Soviet System be in the summer of 1942?
     
  3. knightdepaix

    knightdepaix Member

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    I do not want to stretch analogy but the fact that Nationalist China led opposition against Imperial Japan continued even after the Chinese capital -- Nanking -- had fallen. Soviet combat ability and potential was better than Chinese military at large during those times. Even if Soviet retreated from Moscow, the Red Army could continue fighting, like how the Nationalist China managed the war from Chungking -- the wartime capital.

    Different from the case in China, annexed nations and territories by the Soviet including the three Baltic states did want to liberate themselves. Those nationalities did not exist for the case in China, while both cases showed militia under influence of the invading nation(s). Those powers which wanted to be freed from Soviet influence would have been those Germany approached more. Was Finland one famous case when Finland was pictured as to want a fight against the Soviet ?

    To sum up, Occupying Moscow may not have a lasting effect than it was thought so.
     
  4. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Sorry Knight your analogy is stretched well beyond recognition here.

    The Nationalist's hardly led the opposition to the Japanese occupation of China, rather they did as little as they could. An argument could be made that Mao's Communists man for man did vastly more to eject the invaders.

    Chaing commanded a very diffuse nation than the highly centralized Soviet Union who relied heavily upon strict top to bottom command structure. Loss of a capitol with its bureaucracy was much less critical to the Nationalist's than the Soviet's, indeed capture of Moscow might present the best chance to destabilize the Soviet economic and military leadership structures as they scramble to relocate elsewhere.

    Unlike Stalin, Chaing found himself relying upon various warlords that controlled the county side, while troops completely loyal to him was far more limited. He controlled the Warlords partly though fear of force and partly though disbursement of power/wealth and US/Allied military aid. Just enough to keep them loyal, not enough to be a threat now or later.

    Stalin's system was a all or nothing animal. There was a slim, very slim, chance that loss of Moscow might pry power from his hands by motivating underlings to remove Stalin or stimulate Stalin's overdeveloped paranoia and start sacking General's and bureaucrat's. Either could develop into a state of chaos exploitable by Germany. This doesn't knock Russia out of the war by any means, but any internal diversions help Germany at the expense of efforts to eject them.

    The War in the East was a battle of attrition in the extreme. Forcing the Red Army to fight to retake their capitol would add a million or more casualties than those they were going to have to achieve victory. Germany would lose a sizable number as well, but they would have better ground to defend and in the first half of Barbarossa the ratio of losses favored Germany.
     

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