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Iran - is war likely?

Discussion in 'Non-World War 2 History' started by Ricky, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    I trust neither on their GPS coordinates releases.



    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2047128,00.html
     
  2. Man

    Man New Member

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    Guantamo is full of terrorists... The British are real human beings! Anyway, I'm sure Team America will bust them out soon. If it costs Iran a few national monuments and its infrastructure, well Freedom isn't Free (it costs a buck o five).

    :grin:
     
  3. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    So nazi of of you Panzerman. Replace few words and you could get something like: "Aushwitz if full of jews... Germans (in siberia) are real human beings." Jeeez. At least think before you start typing.
    BTW not realy true about Aushwitz statment as it was also full of other nationalities.

    BTW With what exactly you think team america will burst them out? Boots on ground are a bit thin right now and since Russians and Chinese were happy selling Iran certain pieces of high tech (like AA missiles) they can shoot bach (unlike Sadam). Bush&co even declined to exchange them for Iranian diplomats "dissapeared" few moths ago.
     
  4. Man

    Man New Member

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    Wait, you actually thought I was serious? The reference to an ironic comedy movie that makes fun of the conservative American approach to the War on Terror blew past you? I was actually agreeing with what you were saying, man.

    Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Movi ... merica.jpg

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  5. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    Not realy. Woody or Grieg perhaps. I forgot to put :grin: :grin: :grin: on. (MEA CULPA, MEA MAXIMA CULPA)


    Team america. BAH. We are much better looking :grin: + we can drink team america under the table :smok: (to get into our gallery select: Slike and then: brez njih ne gre - my reserve platoon on 1 week field ecercises (mostly goofing off when we had breaks) and few other pic's of us):
    http://www.iztoknet.com/breznjihnegre/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=2
    Pic 0093 is our official photo.
     
  6. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    I would disagree entirely that it is clear that the British captives have not had to endure stress positions, had tape put over their mouths or frankly any of the assertions from the Guardian's article. Marks on the lips of the males suggest to me at the very least that hey have been punched in the face, either that or every male so far shown on Iranian TV has had the misfortune to fall face first "down the stairs" or something similar. The Guardian's article seems to hinge more on what is not apparent and cannot be proven than anything else. How does the author know that they haven't been beaten, bound, hooded or gagged? He doesn't yet he seems remarkably willing to assume that they haven't been.

    It does seem unfortunate that they have apparently been forced to say things they may later regret, on the other hand when recently did we parade foreign prisoners in a similar fashion? It would have been easy enough to do so during TELIC, yet it did not happen.

    I would suggest that the co-ordinates supplied by the British are more reliable since, firstly in the past when those have proved wrong they have admitted so and secondly the British unlike the Iranians have not ammended the co-ordinates they gave to suit their claims.
     
  7. canambridge

    canambridge Member

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    Oh Simon, how terribly western of you. Haven't you realized yet that we are the problem?

    The world would be a much happier and safer place if only the unelected Iranian Islamic ruling council or their oh so rational president had control of 6,000 nukes with ICBMs instead of that madman Bush and those blood thirsty Americans bent on world domination.
     
  8. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf New Member

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    Just saw BBC2 Newsnight on this issue - they had a very interesting British expert on (missed his introduction).

    He said that there is no clear internationally agreed "border" in that area of water. He said that the Captain of the British ship there at the time said he wasn't sure if they were in Iraqi waters or not but, equally, neither did the Iranians know due to the highly "fuzzy" nature of the boundaries there. The Newsnight chap described it as inaccurate and unhelpful that the British government had then immediately come out and stated that the incident was definitely in Iraqi water when that was debateable.
     
  9. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    TISO, that article by Terry Jones compares known (and on the most part unsanctioned, untypical and punished) 'atrocities' by US forces, to the appearance of people on 5 minutes of poor quality video. How does Terry know that these people have not been subject to all manner of abuses? The letters home are merely a propaganda tool, anybody with half a brain can see that.

    But I'm starting to simply repeat Simon, so I'll stop now.


    Could this be the 'acceptable solution' that will allow prisoner releases without loss of face?
     
  10. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    Good news ,
    There has been a big step back from bangging war drums ,
    the britishs are getting into the groove , the iranians express their desire to see the whole thing resolved without too much fuss ,
    no further appearances of prisonner on iranian TV .
    the foreign minister anouncing the wish of the iranian government to avoid a public trial , wich might excite the crowds and generaly a toning down of the rhetoric .
    just to keep minds focused ,a british soldier got killed in basora ( subtle message ?)

    I stand for my initial bet of the boys being back before xmass after the british government kissing some iranian arse , very tastfully of course ,
    after all they got the men and will make the rules :-?


    .
     
  11. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    i would suspect the RN to have a fairly good ability with a gps ...i used to fish offshore alot out of bodega bay and ft bragg in the bounding blue pacific ,i had over several years a 12foot ,then a 14ft then a 23ft fishing skiff.... early in my sea fishing days i started out one time on a balmey clear smooth day and was happily catching salmon and chating with other boats , i was engrossed in watching my rods when the visability dropped from 20 miles to less than 200 feet within a 15 minute period ...the sudden fog found me alone ,and in complete bewilderment ...i didnt know which way was california and which way was japan .. and japan is like really far away 6 gallons of gas wont hack it ...i sat bobbing on a empty sea in a cold sweat.... i soon solved the east west problem by noteing the direction of the swell passing under my craft .it pointed the way to cali ...next problem was i had not payed attention to wether i was north or south of the noyo inlet ...this was a serious mistake ..one cannot land just anywhere ,the coast being rocky and pounded by huge surf ,the waters icy and patrolled by the largest and most dangerous of sharks .a 200 or 600 yard swim in my cold weather gear and boots from a capsized boat to a sheer cliff wall or even a sandy beach was not a happy prospect ...finally!!! i remembered the ever present fog horn placed in service at noyo river to rescue such fools as me ..i simply had to turn off my engine ,listen ,aim that way towards the distant bleat , motor for a while . tun off listen then repeat ...some 5 or 6 engine stops brought me back to the blessed noyo channel ..i immediatly went to walmart and bought a 30 dollar marine compass and more importantly i never ever left any port or launch site even on a lake without mentally shooting a back asmuth bearing for the trip home and have a mental map running at all times ,no drinking either ( that was another lesson learned in mexican waters ) ...later in a bigger boat my dad bought us a garmin gps ..it had a manuel like a small phone book ..my dad who used to teach map reading in the army struggled with this device for many hours but his solutions would always put us in obvious error ,like 20 miles east of petaluma which is quite impossible in the ocean ..this was an earlier model and we never did get the hang of it i later sold the gps with that 23 foot boat .. (i was by then happy with my dead reconning skills by then so i didnt care ) ..the garmin came with instructions in english ,spanish ,german and french it was very user unfreindly in english i can imagine in farsi it would have been a real bitch ..i wonder which partie in this dispute is more likely to punch the wrong keypad on their gps ???? hmmm this is a tuffy ...
     
  12. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    While I would normally not doubt the ability f the Iranian navy to take accurate GPS fixes, the fact that they had to change their announced GPS reading does not help their case.

    TISO, I do take your point that both sides have the ability and motive to provide fake GPS co-ordinates for the time of the incident, how do you explain the captain of the vessel that the RN sailors were investigating agreeing that his ship was in Iraqi waters at the time? Was he 'got at'? And why did the Iranians change their minds re: their GPS co-ordinates. A typo?
     
  13. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    well ,another thing .the numerals on the gps are in arabic (at least they were in my gps ) ,and as some members have helpfully pointed out to me on several occasions the iranians are not arabic but persian ..i bet thats the problem right there ..
    they need gps displays in persiac numerals..then mabey they wont get so mixed up...and then theres the german ,french ,spanish gps manual ..i bet none of them iranian sailors speaks decent spanish.. i fact ,ill bet they mostly use that gps for a weight to hold down one corner of their chart (i did ) and then tried to call their freinds back in tehran useing the gps keypad .
    ..they keep changing their positions in the report because the really havent the slightest notion what those arabic numbers mean on their charts either ..no wonder they dont want to release the brit sailors , the cat will be outta the bag ,and the iranians will look silly,,,
     
  14. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    Another interesting article:
    http://news..co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece
    Interestingly artilce desn't mentiones botched US raid on Arbil airport the same day, where they were surrounded by peshmergas and almost clashed with them.
    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2788262&page=1
     
  15. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    yep,except that the whole story is not yet out ,there is several versions
    the seizing of the marines could be a planned payback and or a negotiating move , there is now talk of exchange with the five 'cultural attachees' seized by the US in northern irak some weeks back
    grabbing some U.S. servicemen would leave the initiative in the hands of G.W.B. ,
    for the iranians not a good idea ,

    then again , if there is the choice between conspiracy and a stuff up ,
    I always lean on the trusty rock of human stupidity


    P.S. the west use decimals "arabic numerals " the arabs , maybe the iranians use decimals " indians numerals " zero is a dot , five a flatened circle etc....etc..


    P.P.S. fisherman of the world unite , :D this whole thing is going to be blamed on a poor piece of digital electronic , it will save face to everyone




    .
     
  16. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    I hear sailors were amnestied by Iran.

    Bloddy GPS junk.
     
  17. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    definitely a pleasant surprise ,
    I was wrong by 8 months !! :(
    ........... but it end up well !! :D

    .
     
  18. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 525905.stm

    Nice, Iran saves face and looks magnanimous, Britain still gets to claim it did nothing wrong, everybody sticks to their own propaganda and everybody 'wins'. Except animosities deepen, but oh well.

    btw - while Mr Ahmadinejad was making his speech the news programme I was watching (which annoyngly kept returning to him and saying 'still no word on the 15 British sailors') kept speculating that he was 'out of the loop' and that this speech was his attempt to try to influence the Iranian side of the situation.

    :-?

    Where on earth did they get that idea from? Anybody have any clue?
     
  19. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    As I understand it, Ahmadinejad doesn't actually rule Iran; some ayatollah whose name I can't remember does. Anyway, it appears that both the ayatollah and a large portion of the Iranian parliament are growing disenchanted with Mr. A, and there seems to be the distinct possibility that he may lose his job. If so, then his being out of the loop on the British situation takes on all sorts of other dimensions.
     
  20. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    smeg ..you mean theres indian numbers?
     

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