Lt. Charles B. Gatewood.

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The usual conflict rear it's head ,

should the U.S.A. be regarded as a nation , albeit a supremely important one
or as the universal example , the light on the hill !
in the former , critical comments of its actions can justly be given the finger salute ,
the critic being send to dwell on his own country inadequacies
If the later , this is the republic of the people , for the people , by the people
all free men are in a sense citizens and blemishes are stains on all .


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Is there a "brighter side" to US domestic and foreign policies ? If there is, nobody more than I would love to hear it, since as part American I get a bit fed-up having to defend America against the very vocal and intelligent criticisms I get so often from Europeans whose opinions I
respect. What sticks in my craw is just how much America did to assist in the dismemberment of the British Empire, whilst it is ( for reasons a thousand times less benevolent) attempting crassly to construct it's own !
BG

 

I see no reason why you must defend American policy to anyone if you don't feel so inclined.
My post referred to your earlier comments about several incidents and people in American history.
What does American domestic or foreign policy have to do with it and what exactly are you implying when you ask if their is a "brighter side" to American domestic and foreign policy?
Such blanket condemnations without any attempt at discussion of specific policies adds nothing to the debate (except hostility).

ps your comments regarding Gen Terry have been challenged by myself and at least one other poster in this thread. Perhaps you might want to return to the topic that you introduced?

 

Yes, I agree with Grieg: Let's return to the topic, please.

 

american policys abroad pushed the nazis out of western europe and then , rebuilt it .the imperial japanese war machine was smashed and then japan democratized and rebuilt ....marxism was contained and then mostly extinguished worldwide ...one would think europeans at least , would be mostly pleased with americas actions in the last hundred years or so.

 

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Sorry grieg , Why I love America ( I just can't resist )

extracted from a speech by Major General Smedley Butler ,USMC, most decorated officer of the armed forces of the U.S.A. campaigning for huey Long .

" I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of bankers . There are only two things we should fight for .
One is the defence of our home and the other is the Bill of Rights .
War for any other reason is simply a racket.....
I helped make Mexico , especially Tampico , safe for american oil interests..
I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank..
I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of wall street .
The record of rackeetering is long . I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers
I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interest ..
in China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested ...
Looking back on it , I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints .The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents "

god bless a country with officers like that




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Butler was a wacko and a flake who, while decrying being duped for fighting for the bankers, was even then being duped by the Communists that he had fallen in with. I suspect you don't admire him so much as you admire his disloyal and misguided ravings against America. Similar ravings can be found on these forums without too much effort.

We were attempting to return to the topic of the thread, if you don't mind.
Feel free to start your own thread on another topic if you desire.

 

Happy 4th of july to all the Citizen of the U.S.of A.

the thread was about

1- Lt gatewood having issues with his general
2- the breaking of treaties signed with the reds
3- the shameful treatment of Geronimo

I'm unsure which

The breaking of treaties with the reds was covered in the A.B.M. post :smok:

Now, the young lieutenant
Most armies take a dim view of a lowly Lt vomitting venom to the press about his commanding general while still serving
Terry was one of sherman trusted commander during the georgia campaign ,
since sherman was commanding general of the U.S. army with a reputation as a hard man and a great hater of journalists , the future prospects of the said Lt were dim indeed ,
keeping him away from the vipers of the press might have been a favour

As for general Nelson A. Miles he started the civil war as a volunteer lieutenant , got four wounds , rose to major general as a reward for his alleged mistreatment of a prisoner ( jeferson Davis ), finish his career as commander of the army after Grant ,Sherman and Sheridan and was buried at Arlington
Shelby Foote said of him " he was eager to give his superiors what they wanted, Miles was cruel.... not so much by nature as by design "

P.S.
Grieg ,I love America for being the most recent attempt to make a government of the people work ,
nothing less !
Smedley Butler was certainly a bit frayed at the edges , but not many countries would stand this degree of free speech , this I totally respect !

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All right!!! Someone else here has read the works of the great Shelby Foote!!!!!

General Terry owed his Regular Army commission to his capture of the Confederate Fort Fisher at Wilmington, North Carolina in January of 1865. He did a first-class job there, overcoming the garrison with part of his command in bloody, often hand-to-hand fighting, while the other part blocked off Confederate reinforcements coming down from Wilmington. Miles, as I have said, was a competent soldier whose courage under fire was never questioned by even his worst critics. But if you were an obstacle to his ambitions, look out! Sherman refused to make him commander of the department bordering Canada when Sitting Bull and his followers were living in that country after Little Bighorn; Sherman figured that Miles would have been over the border five minutes after taking command there, and he wasn't about to risk war with Britain.

I have to agree about LT Gatewood; the Army does not like active duty officers criticizing their superiors publicly, especially in front of the media. And doing so can be considered insubordination, which is bad for discipline, even if one has what one considers to be the best reasons in the world for doing so. When I joined the Navy, I was flat told that by doing so I had lost some of my right to free speech. While what was done to Geronimo and his people was wrong, Gatewood should have resigned his commission before speaking to the newspapers. And I can understand why the Chiricahuas were done that way; the government did not want to have to fight another such war with them; fighting Apaches of any tribe was always difficult, expensive, and often highly embarrassing.

 

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Shelby foote is the greatest , did anyone saw the civil war serie , he appears for some of the commentary

On the apaches tribes in general and the chiricahuas bands in particular ,
those were not exactly angels of mercy either , they learned guerilla warfare against the spanish during the preceding centuries ,
the treatment of anyone falling alive to their war parties was gruesome to the extreme,

I've read a little article recently stating that the skull and bones ,Yale secret society , get its new members to swear allegiance to the club over a human skull reputed to be Geronimo's

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I own Ken Burns's "The Civil War" on VHS; my wife gave me the set for Christmas years ago. Shelby Foote stole the show with his commentaries.

 

I agree.

 

as a small child i remember going on a family picnic on the bluffs over a river in oklahoma or new mexico were geronimo was said to have jumped his horse while being pursued by the us cavalry ..he escaped ,the us troopers being unwilling to follow his 40 foot plunge ..to this day american boys often yell his name when makeing long drops into water as did many generations of us paratroops while leaveing the doorway ..he was one tuff little injun...a legendary figure in my time but not much beloved by the soldiers who followed in the wake of his depredations across the southwest ..

 

True enough, woody, but neither side in the Indian Wars was going to win any humanitarian awards. In those conflicts, the rule book tended to go out the window right off the bat.