Most Overrated aircraft of WWII?

I would believe so. A shallow climbing turn to maintain visual contact, or extending away to discourage pursuit.

Since the fighters are probably at cruising speed, zooming is probably not an immediate option for the lower fighter. Another problem with zooming is that while it does trade speed for altitude. When you come out on top, you have little energy(speed) left, and if the higher bogie has turned to engage, you are probably in a whole lot of trouble...or soon will be.

I would think a shallow turning climb would be in order both to gain altitude while retaining a reasonable bit of energy and to maintain visual contact with the enemy.

If they enemy is diving towards them, they may very well be.

And if the bogie engages while they are zooming? The lower fighter has just bled off most of his energy.

By maintaining visual contact, the pilot can attempt to counter the bogie with his own counter.

There hardly ever is a 'straight' attack in the final moments of the air 'dancing' duel. That only happens when the bogie does not see you coming.

 

I think this is the basic disagreement.....at sighting distance, more or less, the lower altitude fighters are going to climb straight toward the enemy? if the distance is right..but if they meet the enemy while climbing, haven't they lost mucho power and speed and at great disadvantage?....this was not standard procedure, was it? ..the two groups going straight toward each, from sighting to contact, then right through head on??

 

Bauer was jumped from above and behind...He turned hard into them for a head-on pass. Ergo, the Zeroes are diving an Bauer is climbing.

 

roger that ...here's some eye candy

 

wasn't he at 'low' altitude?? what other options were there?? if jumped by more than 1 Zero at high altitude, wouldn't it be safer to dive??...which Zero got him?? both ? from my reading, hard to say......would like to see a re-creation of the incident....we need MSoftCombat Flight sim

 

climbing, Zeros above, = he is shot down.......? as stated in the original --he can sure be aggressive, but not with advantage....here's the start of the dual, post # 365...he was shot down...by whom, we don't know......I don't see that as advantage

advantage?

 

Yes, he was at low altitude. But, that is irrelevant to our argument.

Probably none, but again, this is irrelevant to our argument.

That would depend on the pilot. Again, going back to Figure 2-2...Extending away or turning into the attack.

That has always been a matter of speculation. Did the lead Zero cripple his plane or did Bauer collide with debris from the lead Zero when it exploded. It is unlikely that it was the wingman Zero, as Joe Foss & Tom Furlow chased the second Zero, but failed to catch it.

I can't remember if it is in this episode. But, I do remember that they have an F4F pilot that climbed to engage some Ki-43 Oscars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpOnTOoleJw

I think you mean the 2nd one - MS Combat Flight Simulator 2 was the one that took place in the Pacific...Loved that game...And if I catch the bastard that stole my copy, I am going to give him such a hurt.

That being said, Oleg Maddox's IL-2 series

"Pacific Fighters"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Fighters

or

"IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-2_Sturmovik:_1946

Are better options.

 

The "advantage" is the F4F's more rugged construction vs the A6M's weaker construction.

Bauer said

That is the Grumman Iron Works advantage.

 

The man want's eye candy...The man get's eye candy.

 

More eye candy...

 

Even more eye candy...

 

I've got a few more prepped for upload if you want to see them.

 

yes I had MSCFS 2 also....also had MSCFS 1..super cool...so many free add on mods it was unbelievable !! loved landing on the Ark Royal...plus they had jets, civilian, etc add ons......also had the old voice talk, so could talk to any1 all over the world.........I was watching Charlton Heston on an old 1974 or 75 Johnny Carson and he was very amazed at the 747 flight simulator he got to work in..I'm guessing MSCF was better...?....does any1 know if any of the flight sims today have a lot of multiplayers? except for War Thunder?

1. I would think when discussing anything on the forum, we are discussing standard, general conditions except if specified.....for air combat,, standard would mean well above low altitude, no?
2.at low altitude, he cannot dive for safety, etc...he does not have many options except to go head on...? and didn't have to climb so high..? how much higher were the Zeros...?!

yes, everyone agrees F4F more rugged....but was it standard procedure and smart to climb into a Zero-or Zeros-- at standard combat altitude?
great pics...I'm reminded again of the different under carriage lay out in up position

rugged yes, but to use that ruggedness you have to first be able to get into a position to use it, or get out of trouble fast,....and your pictures reminded me of another very old book I've had,, American Fighters of WW2 volume 1 page 21 ----- F4F managed to contribute to American victories '''through excellent pilot training, efficient combat formation and Japanese tactical errors--to overcome the handicap of [F4F] performances inferior to the ...A6M2'''

if the F4F can't get into a good shooting position, while the enemy does, the ruggedness is nullified

 

also got this today from my brother..April 26 1943...many articles on WW2 inside ....caption is
''Japanese Zero:The Enemy's Air Power Again Overshadows the Pacific''...

 

That'd be a good read B...always enjoy reading old magazines. Like the way phrasing/ words/ styles, ideas and even racism were so different than now...The Zero was a slap in the face to US military. Japanese were considered inferior in every way back then (and they felt the same toward us).

 

exactly!..Patton's book is same way.....what you say is spot on.....that would be a good thread on how each side thought of the other....

 

Eye candy...

 

they look like very ''simple'' flying machines from your pics mccoffee....doesn't look very aerodynamic...along with manual controls, no GPS, no fly-by-wire,etc must've taken a lot of concentration, thinking, strength, etc to fly compared to the modern jets of today.....no auto pilot....some pilots would do 3 sorties a day??

 

The US 20mm and 50 cal were pretty well matched ballistically I believe. US 50 cals didn't have any HE so the 20mm packed a lot more punch if it hit. The Zero didn't carry a lot of rounds for it's 20mm however., wiki lists 60 rounds for the A6M2 for each gun. Tony Williams site has some good articles on this that have been linked in past discussions here.

 

Thanks El Dubya Dee. ..Always thought there were always a variety of ammo for the .50...Now wonder when the .50 got all those fabulous tips...A phosphorus tipped .50 would be a dangerous thing. What is the difference between tracer and incendiary...going to look for /start a thread on the fiddy.
My vote for most overrated would be the G4M "Betty".
Long legs (3700 miles), but completely un armoured with large wing fuel tanks...One sortie on Port Morsby in Jan 1943, 10 of 17 did not return to base.