Northern Ireland Conflict

Most Americans don't even know that any such thing ever happened, GP; trust me on this one. It's sad, but Americans as a whole are not terribly well informed about current events or recent history. To be fair, in many cases it's because they have so much to do just trying to survive from day to day that anything not directly relating to that struggle is pretty much going to be ignored.

I would like to make one other point, though, GP: America is a big country, and a free one. Keeping tabs on what large numbers of otherwise law abiding citizens are doing with their money is difficult, if not impossible, until and unless evidence comes forward to plainly state that, yes, they are doing something reprehensible. And even then, if there is no pressure to do something about a problem...well, if nothing else, this proves that Americans are human beings, as flawed and fallible as anyone else on Earth.

 

I can vouch for that. I have a very close friend in Dallas, and when I came on to this subject about Irish Americans helping to fund Irish terrorists she was genuinely unaware of it and was terribly shocked. Living in Texas and not being Irish American (her ancestors are English-German) why would she know what went on in Boston and New York? She hasn't even been to Boston or New York. There are many like that.

 

I haven't been to America but I do.

The point I was making is exactly that, If more was published that it was terrorism over the past 30 years and not a war, things may have been different.

As with the British news in the Israel Palestinian conflict, if the Israeli's do something it is retaliation, however, if the Palestinians retaliated to the murder of their elected leaders (not necessarily my views) then it is murder.

Israel going into the west bank or Gaza and killing women and children is not helping the process.

 

One of the Americans I worked with refused to believe that Oliver North sold weapons to Iran.

 

The distinction between retaliation and murder or freedom fighter and terrorist can be summed up in one little phrase, PR.

 

Or perspective...

Likewise see the difference between 'suicide' and 'sacrifice'
Suicide is strictly forbidden by Islam (as with most religions), but suicide bombers are 'allowed' by the loophole that they are 'sacrificing' themselves for a holy cause.

Some people can find justification for anything (see also the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc!)

 

Amazing how many armies have gone to war under the banner god is on our side. Particularly one who is on record as having said , Thou shall not kill. No if, buts or maybe's however we always manage to rationalise 'well god obviously didn't mean heathens, heretics or those guys over there.'

 

The rational was that your King was obviously chosen by God to be your ruler, so therefore he could make decisions on behalf of/with the approval of God.
So if your King says "go kill the French", you go kill the French.
Obviously, if you kill other Christians, you should do penance. If you kill heathens, then, um, does it matter?

Did these guys even read their Bible?

 

So If a more balanced view was given by all then peace may come sooner, so long as Israel is portrayed as the victim and the Palestinians as the terrorist people will never see peace in the middle east.

 

Well, both Israel & the Palestinians are the victims...
(is this in the wrong topic?)
Israel is the victim of the deep deep deep anti-Jewish* feeling in the Arab world (why do they hate the Jews so much? Why does everyone hate the Jews so much?). The Palestinians are the victim of the neighbouring states, as they were promised that the Jews would be kicked out toot sweet so if they left their homes for a month or so they could return to a Jew-free world (some left their homes due to this promise, others fled anyway then heard this promise). This did not happen. Initially the Palestinian refugees hated their Arab hosts for making false promises, but time and propaganda have changed that.

As so often happens, everyone is a victim.
Frankly, the original vision of the UN (and the Israelis) of a state where Arab & Jew live together without distinction is the best solution. Will it happen? Jerusalem should probably be a 'free' city. After all it is the 'holiest' city for 2 big religions & the 3rd or 4th holiest for another. (I never really got the idea of a city being holy myself...). Again, will this happen?

* Anti-Jewish not anti-Semetic. 'Semetic' is a linguistic classification, and includes Hebraic and Arabic languages. An Anti-Semite hates Jews & Arabs equally.

 

Europeans have hated Jews for millenia because they were often very rich and succesful tradesmen and bankers, much more succesful than those who had toiled in this or that place for generations. It was largely jealousy. Also they were often the patsy for everything because they were a minority almost everywhere. Plague? The Jews did it! Famine? The Jews! Political instability and an unbeaten army surrendered while the people, fooled by propaganda, still believed in victory for their country? You get the picture.

Is this from the French expression "tout de suite"? Looks funny in phonetic English.

 

You forgot the "they killed Christ" idea.
Yet another 'go back and read that Bible properly' one...
:roll:

If that means 'very quickly', then yes!

 

Oh yeah. But I reckon that would count for less among the common people. They're used to worshiping a crucified man, so who cares who killed him?

"Tout de suite" means 'immediately'. In English it would be prononced toot sweet.

 

The commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill" refers to murder, Ebar, not to soldiers killing enemy soldiers in a war or someone killing in self-defense or in defense of his/her family.

 

The Romans were the ones who actually crucified Christ. However, it was done at the behest of the Jewish religious leaders of the day (not the Jewish people, it should be noted). Those who have hated the Jews for this forget that Jesus was marked to die for us from the day He was born; this was God's plan from before the beginning of time. The haters also forget that God's word teaches forgiveness and that we are NOT to judge others, lest we be judged.

 

BANK RAID

On 20th Dec 04 a bank raid on the Northern Bank's head office netted the raiders approx £27 Mill ( 38.6 Mill Euros, 50.5 mill US Dollars )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4117219.stm


It is generally believed that the IRA was responsible for the raid.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4160545.stm

Just out of curiosity was this reported at all overseas?

 

I've heard nothing about it.
It sounds like a nasty blow for that bank... 38.6 million Euries, that's no small deal!

 

Particularly when your self insured.

 

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Yes I heard of it.

 

Yes, in Spain too.